Towing trailer and glider with a honda civic

On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 8:32:39 AM UTC-8, Paul Agnew wrote:
I'm towing my Schreder trailer with a 2004 Prius with 277k miles on it. MPG drops to 28-29, but it tows fine. The Schreder is much lighter than the wood/fiberglass box I was pulling.

The plan is to add electric or surge brakes soon. Plus, it probably will feel a little different when I actually put my glider in it. ;-) (Soon...very soon...still working on fittings.)

Paul A.

Electric brakes good.

Surge brakes bad.

I would not recommend assuming that a manufacturer "assumes".Â* When in
doubt, ask the manufacturer.Â* My experience in the auto industry,
involved with manufacturer's engineering specifications, indicates that
they have very stringent specs.Â* Give 'em a call.

On 3/2/2018 9:00 AM, 2G wrote:
On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 7:54:13 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
Now that OP has made his decision, I'll drift the thread with this towing tidbit...

I looked into towing with a hybrid. There is an issue with overheating of the electric motors on long grades. The 'recommended tow weights' are much lower for the hybrid version of the same model vehicle. I'd guess that part of the issue is that the same motors are used for 'regenerative braking' on the downgrades, so they don't get a chance to cool off.
Remember that manufacturer recommended towing limits are assuming a shorter wheelbase utility type trailer, not a long wheelbase glider trailer. Weight is not the only issue to consider. And they probably also assume short, local trips, not long-distance trips.

Tom

--
Dan, 5J

While I "typically agree", OEM limits are sometimes based more on "local sales laws" or "how likely do we think we will get sued?".

What may be fine in parts of the planet are banned in other parts of the planet, even if the basic hardware is the same.

As to the original question, well yes, this combination may be fine, but margins can be rather slim compared to other cars.

I have towed from a worn out '70's super beetle (with a huge plywood and steel trailer and a ASW-15 in it) to a mid sized motor home with a newer trailer and 15m ship.

Vehicle weight, the more the better.
Vehicle wheelbase, the more the better.
Trailer weight, the lower the better.
Tongue weight, small range of "OK".
Aero can make a difference, use the same trailer but on 2 similar vehicles but with different aero, some are great and some leave the trailer dancing at speed.

Road speed, hills, crosswinds and truck traffic can all make a difference.

Small cars with a AT and a heavy trailer, be mindful of trans fluid temps. Manual trans is a bit easier, all other things being the same.

When in doubt, slow the Frik down. If you lose it, damage is lessened, both the tow vehicle and the trailer.
Trailer damage is like aircraft damage, if you don't hurt it, you likely don't hurt peeps.

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 10:10:27 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
I would not recommend assuming that a manufacturer "assumes".Â* When in
doubt, ask the manufacturer.Â* My experience in the auto industry,
involved with manufacturer's engineering specifications, indicates that
they have very stringent specs.Â*

There is an SAE standard for recommended towing maximums. But the number of manufacturers that actually adhere to the standard has changed over the years. So it is difficult for consumers to compare the tow capacity of vehicles. It's interesting to read that the standard is based on a real world scenario.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ined-tech-dept

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 7:10:27 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
I would not recommend assuming that a manufacturer "assumes".Â* When in
doubt, ask the manufacturer.Â* My experience in the auto industry,
involved with manufacturer's engineering specifications, indicates that
they have very stringent specs.Â* Give 'em a call.

On 3/2/2018 9:00 AM, 2G wrote:
On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 7:54:13 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
Now that OP has made his decision, I'll drift the thread with this towing tidbit...

I looked into towing with a hybrid. There is an issue with overheating of the electric motors on long grades. The 'recommended tow weights' are much lower for the hybrid version of the same model vehicle. I'd guess that part of the issue is that the same motors are used for 'regenerative braking' on the downgrades, so they don't get a chance to cool off.
Remember that manufacturer recommended towing limits are assuming a shorter wheelbase utility type trailer, not a long wheelbase glider trailer. Weight is not the only issue to consider. And they probably also assume short, local trips, not long-distance trips.

Tom

--
Dan, 5J

By all means - call. But I can tell you that recommendations are based on an expected population of trailers. Glider trailers are the exception, not the norm. Utility trailers are the norm. The dynamics of glider trailers are much different than utility trailers.
Also, the accident-free history of a particular car and particular trailer does not mean that that combination is safe, let alone a broad spectrum of cars and trailers. All that it means is than an accident hasn't so far, and is no guarantee that it will not happen in the future. You may not have encountered the set of conditions that will push you over the edge. Losing control of a car and trailer at highway speeds is serious business. Personally, I will invest in a better tow vehicle before I will risk my - and other motorists who with whom I'm sharing the road - safety.
Tom

In 2017 the hybrid Toyota Rav4 had a higher tow capacity.
Slightly. The ordinary Rav4 was rated 1500 lbs; the hybrid 1750.

Those are USA ratings. Meanwhile, Toyota's UK web site claimed 3000 lbs for the ordinary Rav4.

...david

On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 10:54:13 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
Now that OP has made his decision, I'll drift the thread with this towing tidbit...

I looked into towing with a hybrid. There is an issue with overheating of the electric motors on long grades. The 'recommended tow weights' are much lower for the hybrid version of the same model vehicle. I'd guess that part of the issue is that the same motors are used for 'regenerative braking' on the downgrades, so they don't get a chance to cool off.

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 9:25:31 AM UTC-7, David Sherrill wrote:
In 2017 the hybrid Toyota Rav4 had a higher tow capacity.
Slightly. The ordinary Rav4 was rated 1500 lbs; the hybrid 1750.

Those are USA ratings. Meanwhile, Toyota's UK web site claimed 3000 lbs for the ordinary Rav4.

...david

On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 10:54:13 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
Now that OP has made his decision, I'll drift the thread with this towing tidbit...

I looked into towing with a hybrid. There is an issue with overheating of the electric motors on long grades. The 'recommended tow weights' are much lower for the hybrid version of the same model vehicle. I'd guess that part of the issue is that the same motors are used for 'regenerative braking' on the downgrades, so they don't get a chance to cool off.

From a Toyota web site:

"An upgrade to the all-new 2018 Toyota RAV4 Adventure trim level will improve the available towing capacity of the Toyota compact crossover. Fitted with a standard Tow Prep Package, the RAV4 Adventure adds an upgraded radiator, a heavy-duty engine oil cooler and upgraded transmission fluid coolers to improve towing. With the tow hitch receiver and wiring harness, the front-wheel drive Toyota RAV4 Adventure will tow an impressive 2,900 pounds. When you add Dynamic Torque Control AWD to the equation, the RAV4 Adventure will tow 3,500 pounds – 2,000 pounds more than standard models."

Maybe engine/transmission cooling isn't such a problem in the UK, like it is here in Arizona?

Mike

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 9:25:31 AM UTC-7, David Sherrill wrote:
In 2017 the hybrid Toyota Rav4 had a higher tow capacity.
Slightly. The ordinary Rav4 was rated 1500 lbs; the hybrid 1750.

Those are USA ratings. Meanwhile, Toyota's UK web site claimed 3000 lbs for the ordinary Rav4.

...david

On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 10:54:13 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
Now that OP has made his decision, I'll drift the thread with this towing tidbit...

I looked into towing with a hybrid. There is an issue with overheating of the electric motors on long grades. The 'recommended tow weights' are much lower for the hybrid version of the same model vehicle. I'd guess that part of the issue is that the same motors are used for 'regenerative braking' on the downgrades, so they don't get a chance to cool off.

From a Toyota web site:

"An upgrade to the all-new 2018 Toyota RAV4 Adventure trim level will improve the available towing capacity of the Toyota compact crossover. Fitted with a standard Tow Prep Package, the RAV4 Adventure adds an upgraded radiator, a heavy-duty engine oil cooler and upgraded transmission fluid coolers to improve towing. With the tow hitch receiver and wiring harness, the front-wheel drive Toyota RAV4 Adventure will tow an impressive 2,900 pounds. When you add Dynamic Torque Control AWD to the equation, the RAV4 Adventure will tow 3,500 pounds – 2,000 pounds more than standard models."

Maybe engine/transmission cooling isn't such a problem in the UK, like it is here in Arizona?

Mike

....and from Toyota UK:

"Both front- and four-wheel drive RAV4 Hybrid models have a legal towing capacity of 750kg for unbraked trailers. With regards to braked trailers (where the trailer has its own braking system), the front-wheel drive RAV4 Hybrid has a recommended towing capacity of 800kg and the four-wheel drive RAV4 Hybrid has a recommended towing capacity of 1,650kg."

Towing capacity depends very much on model and model year - an earlier diesel RAV4 had a stated towing capacity of 2,000 kg.

Mike

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 4:09:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I have a 2016 honda civic. It’s my only car. Has any one towed their glider and trailer using a small sedan like a civic?

The only car Ive had that tows better than my Bugatti Veyron is my Rolls Royce
Corniche.
OK, Just a few musings you guys might comment on. I've towed Bickle and Cobra trailers and I have found that the type of tire matters. For some reason I have had better luck (Handling wise) with car specific tires and not trailer specific tires. Further, I have seen different model years of the same car (Ford Explorer in this case) have totally different towing qualities and behavior.

On Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 6:51:51 PM UTC+3, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 4:09:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I have a 2016 honda civic. It’s my only car. Has any one towed their glider and trailer using a small sedan like a civic?

The only car Ive had that tows better than my Bugatti Veyron is my Rolls Royce
Corniche.
OK, Just a few musings you guys might comment on. I've towed Bickle and Cobra trailers and I have found that the type of tire matters. For some reason I have had better luck (Handling wise) with car specific tires and not trailer specific tires.

Sidewall stiffness helps. Either inherent -- crossplys are better than radials, all else being equal -- or created by pumping them up to the maximum pressure.

Has anyone tried putting bigger rims and low profile tyres on their trailer? That would be a very "car" thing.

Further, I have seen different model years of the same car (Ford Explorer in this case) have totally different towing qualities and behavior.

Was the worse one old enough that wear could be a factor?