ADSB out in tow planes

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 2:06:24 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
I’ve heard from a lot of glider pilots and seen the comment that the FLARM can’t be turned off. I was reading through the PowerFLARM core installation manual and it says-“Connect PowerFLARM CORE via a dedicated pilot-operated 2 ampere CB. �

How long would it take the FLARM to boot up and find itself if you didn’t push the CB in until after you release from tow?

minute. But it's not that simple. As somebody else already mentioned many pilots will be relying on the PowerFLARM as a flight recorder. Or even if relying on it to to drive a PDA you may have problems getting the soaring software set up correctly, pressure altitude set correctly etc. without a GPS driving stuff.

Pilots are unlikely going to won't want to risk problems, especially in contests or badge flights. And adding to the pilot workload and distractions to do stuff and then check things are working in a thermal off tow or maybe a pre-start gaggle is a bad idea. Turning down the volume seems a much better idea. Or even better put that PowerFLARM in the towplane and hopefully the issue just goes away.

Those are all excellent points! Glad I asked the question.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 2:18:17 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
Those are all excellent points! Glad I asked the question.

You CAN display Flarm targets on an iPad, but it requires a specific installation. You will need an Air Connect interface and the iGlide software from Air Avionics. The Air Connect uses the RS-232 stream from the Flarm and sends it via WiFi to the iPad. On the iPad, iGlide will display all the targets that PowerFlarm can see, which will be Flarm equipped gliders and ADS-B traffic. You can also use iGlide for navigation as it is a full tactical computer with GPS moving map, airspace, etc. There is a variation of it called iPilot for GA aircraft, but I don't think it will connect to the Flarm.

Another app that will display Flarm on an iPad is Winpilot Live (still requires the Air Connect). Both apps are on the Apple app store. The Air Connect can be had from Craggy Aero, installation is simple on a PowerFlarm, one plug for power and data.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 3:44:54 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 2:18:17 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
Those are all excellent points! Glad I asked the question.

You CAN display Flarm targets on an iPad, but it requires a specific installation. You will need an Air Connect interface and the iGlide software from Air Avionics. The Air Connect uses the RS-232 stream from the Flarm and sends it via WiFi to the iPad. On the iPad, iGlide will display all the targets that PowerFlarm can see, which will be Flarm equipped gliders and ADS-B traffic. You can also use iGlide for navigation as it is a full tactical computer with GPS moving map, airspace, etc. There is a variation of it called iPilot for GA aircraft, but I don't think it will connect to the Flarm.

Another app that will display Flarm on an iPad is Winpilot Live (still requires the Air Connect). Both apps are on the Apple app store. The Air Connect can be had from Craggy Aero, installation is simple on a PowerFlarm, one plug for power and data.

Yes, but to be clear, that can't display on Foreflight (a just *wonderful* GA app), which was the original question. And since he already has an Oudie and C302 I know what I'd be doing... adding a PowerFLARM and K6 Mux and possibly a Flarmview display.

Now if only SeeYou Mobile ran on an iPhone I'd care more using those (OK I said that just to annoy Jon). :-)

So...Â* Will the glider pilot complaining that his PF alerts on the tug's
ADS-B be willing to foot the bill to put a PF portable into the tug?

On 6/2/2018 3:15 PM, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 2:06:24 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
I’ve heard from a lot of glider pilots and seen the comment that the FLARM can’t be turned off. I was reading through the PowerFLARM core installation manual and it says-“Connect PowerFLARM CORE via a dedicated pilot-operated 2 ampere CB. �

How long would it take the FLARM to boot up and find itself if you didn’t push the CB in until after you release from tow?
minute. But it's not that simple. As somebody else already mentioned many pilots will be relying on the PowerFLARM as a flight recorder. Or even if relying on it to to drive a PDA you may have problems getting the soaring software set up correctly, pressure altitude set correctly etc. without a GPS driving stuff.

Pilots are unlikely going to won't want to risk problems, especially in contests or badge flights. And adding to the pilot workload and distractions to do stuff and then check things are working in a thermal off tow or maybe a pre-start gaggle is a bad idea. Turning down the volume seems a much better idea. Or even better put that PowerFLARM in the towplane and hopefully the issue just goes away.


--
Dan, 5J

Does Foreflight run on Android? In Europe we don't have Foreflight. Instead we have SkyDemon, an outstanding app for GA which I believe is comparable to Foreflight. SkyDemon runs equally well on Android or iOs devices, and can accept an input from Powerflarm. The SkyDemon folk market the use of PF for traffic awareness to GA pilots.

It is rather cheaper and simpler to use an Android tablet with the free to use XC App and PF than to go down the iOs route. But if Foreflight does not run on Android I suppose you afe stuck with an iPad cor GA flight planning and nav. If so, i am grateful to SkyDemon for giving us the option of Android.

BTW, I rate the Oudie very highly. It is extremely flexible- which is a strength for power users and which is difficult for those who want a turnkey solution.

ForeFlight is iOS only and they seem proud of that and how being focused on a single platform helps them. And it may, it's very impressive software. What is most impressive is how much damage they have done to Garmin in the GA EFB/portable device market. Now coming to Europe. https://foreflight.com/europe

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 6:01:36 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
Does Foreflight run on Android? In Europe we don't have Foreflight. Instead we have SkyDemon, an outstanding app for GA which I believe is comparable to Foreflight. SkyDemon runs equally well on Android or iOs devices, and can accept an input from Powerflarm. The SkyDemon folk market the use of PF for traffic awareness to GA pilots.

It is rather cheaper and simpler to use an Android tablet with the free to use XC App and PF than to go down the iOs route. But if Foreflight does not run on Android I suppose you afe stuck with an iPad cor GA flight planning and nav. If so, i am grateful to SkyDemon for giving us the option of Android.

BTW, I rate the Oudie very highly. It is extremely flexible- which is a strength for power users and which is difficult for those who want a turnkey solution.

How does SkyDemon get Flarm information into an iOS device?

I am a power user, but I would rather spend that power doing useful things, than making SYM work.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 6:01:36 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
Does Foreflight run on Android? In Europe we don't have Foreflight. Instead we have SkyDemon, an outstanding app for GA which I believe is comparable to Foreflight. SkyDemon runs equally well on Android or iOs devices, and can accept an input from Powerflarm. The SkyDemon folk market the use of PF for traffic awareness to GA pilots.

It is rather cheaper and simpler to use an Android tablet with the free to use XC App and PF than to go down the iOs route. But if Foreflight does not run on Android I suppose you afe stuck with an iPad cor GA flight planning and nav. If so, i am grateful to SkyDemon for giving us the option of Android.

BTW, I rate the Oudie very highly. It is extremely flexible- which is a strength for power users and which is difficult for those who want a turnkey solution.

Foreflight does not run on Android though Garmin Pilot runs on both.Â*
Having run Garmin Pilot on both platforms, I can say that it has more
features in the iOS version than the Android version.Â* It also crashed
quite often on the Android and never (yet, 3 months) on iOS.

On 6/2/2018 7:01 PM, waremark wrote:
Does Foreflight run on Android? In Europe we don't have Foreflight. Instead we have SkyDemon, an outstanding app for GA which I believe is comparable to Foreflight. SkyDemon runs equally well on Android or iOs devices, and can accept an input from Powerflarm. The SkyDemon folk market the use of PF for traffic awareness to GA pilots.

It is rather cheaper and simpler to use an Android tablet with the free to use XC App and PF than to go down the iOs route. But if Foreflight does not run on Android I suppose you afe stuck with an iPad cor GA flight planning and nav. If so, i am grateful to SkyDemon for giving us the option of Android.

BTW, I rate the Oudie very highly. It is extremely flexible- which is a strength for power users and which is difficult for those who want a turnkey solution.

--
Dan, 5J

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 2:06:24 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
I’ve heard from a lot of glider pilots and seen the comment that the FLARM can’t be turned off. I was reading through the PowerFLARM core installation manual and it says-“Connect PowerFLARM CORE via a dedicated pilot-operated 2 ampere CB. �

How long would it take the FLARM to boot up and find itself if you didn’t push the CB in until after you release from tow?

Many glider pilots will not want to turn off Flarm until after release, because they are using the Flarm IGC logger to document their flight. Leaving it off until release is not an option as it will leave the takeoff, field elevation, etc. undocumented making the flight likely invalid for competition, OLC, or other uses.

To answer your question, it will only take 30 seconds or less to boot and find position. But the damage to the log file is already done.