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Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 27th 19, 01:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 4:14:03 PM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 2:57:46 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, July 25, 2019 at 6:17:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Dickhead. Are you waiting for a response from the FSDO so you can tattle? At least he went back to where he came from, and by choice. Different situation down here on the southern border of the US.


Hello Fellow Dickhead,

I don't need to "tattle" on anyone: Chester did that all by himself by posting his flight on a public forum. Furthermore, my objective is to learn the nuances of the law, not to "tattle." And a quick search turned up the following US Code:

8 U.S. Code § 1287. Alien crewmen brought into the United States with intent to evade immigration laws; penalties

Any person, including the owner, agent, consignee, master, or commanding officer of any vessel or aircraft arriving in the United States from any place outside thereof, who shall knowingly sign on the vessel’s articles, or bring to the United States as one of the crew of such vessel or aircraft, any alien, with intent to permit or assist such alien to enter or land in the United States in violation of law, or who shall falsely and knowingly represent to a consular officer at the time of application for visa, or to the immigration officer at the port of arrival in the United States, that such alien is a bona fide member of the crew employed in any capacity regularly required for normal operation and services aboard such vessel or aircraft, shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding $10,000 for each such violation, for which sum such vessel or aircraft shall be liable and may be seized and proceeded against by way of libel in any district court of the United States having jurisdiction of the offense.

=================

Remember, if you get into a dispute with these folks, THEY will be deciding what "intent" means, NOT YOU! Chester, IMO, is skating on thin ice with these flights. He said he was vague about his flight plan, which will be potentially viewed by authorities as being evasive. And if he were forced to land in the US for ANY reason he would clearly be in violation of the law, and be at a very real risk of having his glider seized and a stiff fine imposed. You knuckleheads seem to think that you can violate the law and, if caught, you can talk your way out of it with something ridiculous like "declaring an emergency." Well, THINK AGAIN! These officers hear this crap every day from real criminals and are well versed in the law. Eric had a very close call on this, and only a comment by his wife to a customs officer at the border saved him running afoul with authorities. This is SERIOUS BUSINESS! Unlike most of the rest of you, I actually have Chester's best interests at heart.



Jeez Tom - If you find yourself in a hole the generally accepted advice is to stop digging rather than breaking out the backhoe.

Here’s a tip: Not a single person reading this thread thinks any of the defenses or deflections you’ve posted since have in any way justified the mistake of the original post. Quite the opposite. Blaming Chester for not preventing you from jumping to a wrong conclusion was just icing on the incredulity cake. Bringing in irrelevant customs or immigration regulations as defense for being wrong on an FAR topic is pure deflection.

You’ve expended an immense amount of energy trying to convince only yourself that you weren’t mistaken in your original post. Each additional post antagonizes more people but convinces no one. It’s a rare personality that elects to twist reality that far for self-rationalization - in this case seemingly without any recognition that everyone else sees through it. Go back and read my link to the psychology article, then have a private sit-down for some self-reflection.

Here’s a cut and paste reply for your next post:

“Chester - My bad, I had no idea you’d filed a flight plan. Congrats on such a great flight and the foresight to deal with ATC ahead of time. I’m curious if you’ve given much thought to what you’d do if you were forced to land before re-entering Canadian airspace. It seems like that might open up and entirely different can of worms with a different government agency”.

Just a suggestion. Or you can keep digging.

Happy soaring.

Andy Blackburn
9B


Andy,

At this point nothing that I say will please you, so I won't try.

Tom
  #2  
Old July 27th 19, 01:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
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Posts: 608
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

I awarded you some points, that’s something.

;-)
  #3  
Old July 27th 19, 01:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Posts: 1,439
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 5:49:18 PM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:
I awarded you some points, that’s something.

;-)


I'm THRILLED!
  #4  
Old July 26th 19, 06:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul T[_4_]
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Posts: 259
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

At 00:11 26 July 2019, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, July 25, 2019 at 4:15:05 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
At 22:10 25 July 2019, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, July 25, 2019 at 2:58:23 PM UTC-7, Charles

Longley
wrote:
FAR 91.707
Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate

a
civil
aircraf=
t between Mexico or Canada and the United States without

filing an
IFR or
V=
FR flight plan, as appropriate.
=20
You don=E2=80=99t need a clearance to enter US airspace

Tom. Just file a
=
VFR flight plan. There=E2=80=99s no ADIZ between Canada

and
the US by the
w=
ay.
=20
Personally I think you=E2=80=99re jealous....

LOL! Jealous? Hardly.

Based on what I read on the FAA's website, a landing at a port

of
entry
was=
required, which Chester did not do. It is the FAA's website that

is,
appar=
ently, wrong or inaccurate. I am awaiting a call back from my

local
FSDO
on=
this issue.

Tom


What a total dickhead -FFS what does it matter to you? - still
grieving over 1812?, some Canuck did you wrong in the

past??.....
with guys like you around no wonder soaring is in decline.


Following the FARs is not optional. Pilots who violate them can

impact ALL
of us, including you. I wonder how that inspector will react when

you call
him/her a "dickhead?"


Thank f..k I don't have to soar in your godforsaken country. Chester
has graciously come on here and explained how the flight was
undertaken - now you should be celebrating the fact that it was a
magnificent flight, but no you want to raise merry hell and look for
some indiscretion. I hope the whole gliding world shuns you.


  #5  
Old July 26th 19, 07:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 147
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

Is a transponder even required? I didn't think so. Of course better to squawk and be on freq if possible.
  #6  
Old July 26th 19, 03:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 380
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

Jeez much ado about nothing. Harold Eloy made multiple very long (for a 1-26) flights out of canada into North Dakota and beyond. If the perfect day materializes for a flight into canada I will go for it, talk to whoever I can get from ATC and deal with customs after the fact. Its much easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission much of the time.
  #8  
Old July 26th 19, 07:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
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Posts: 601
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 11:28:30 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 7/26/2019 7:44 AM:
Jeez much ado about nothing. Harold Eloy made multiple very long (for a 1-26) flights out of canada into North Dakota and beyond. If the perfect day materializes for a flight into canada I will go for it, talk to whoever I can get from ATC and deal with customs after the fact. Its much easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission much of the time.


I suggest you research this choice before you use it. If it's not an emergency,
and you land in Canada or the USA without permission, they may not be very
forgiving. Confiscation of your glider seems a real possibility. My experience
with Customs (US and Canada) is they are often deeply offended by people that
don't follow the correct protocol, and it can expensive and time-consuming to deal
with them.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf


Technically we can declare any glider landout as an emergency. May require to follow up with paperwork, but may be better than dealing with custom...

Ramy
  #9  
Old July 27th 19, 12:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

Ramy wrote on 7/26/2019 11:48 AM:
On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 11:28:30 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 7/26/2019 7:44 AM:
Jeez much ado about nothing. Harold Eloy made multiple very long (for a 1-26) flights out of canada into North Dakota and beyond. If the perfect day materializes for a flight into canada I will go for it, talk to whoever I can get from ATC and deal with customs after the fact. Its much easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission much of the time.


I suggest you research this choice before you use it. If it's not an emergency,
and you land in Canada or the USA without permission, they may not be very
forgiving. Confiscation of your glider seems a real possibility. My experience
with Customs (US and Canada) is they are often deeply offended by people that
don't follow the correct protocol, and it can expensive and time-consuming to deal
with them.



Technically we can declare any glider landout as an emergency. May require to follow up with paperwork, but may be better than dealing with custom...


I suspect Customs on either side would not buy that story if you flew into the
country and never made an attempt to return, unless weather clearly prevented you
from doing so (my situation on my only cross-border flight). Our own literature
(soaring articles, RAS, etc) could easily be used against a "technical" claim.

I think Chester's example is a good one: file a flight plan, talk to ATC on both
sides before you need to, and have a motor that can get you back to your country
without landing. So, Rami, order that ASG-29ES and move to Montana!


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
 




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