"The New Soldier" by John Kerry et al

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message ...
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
om...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
m...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
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Now it's time for you to answer a question I didn't ask or make
some
gratuitous comment about the 'cheapness' of Kerry's Purple Hearts.

Not gratuitous--the comment about the PH's is valid; can you name
any
other
troops who got three of those without missing any duty days?



Technically he missed two days. Next time you've taken shrapnel in the
thigh remember those little scratches. Kerry didn't make the rules but
he played them.

Well, in the same spirit as the Kerry camp's "release Bush's records
now"
chants of a few days back, I am sure a full release of any medical
records
listing the severity of said wounds would be welcomed with open arms by
Kerry, right?

It's 30 years, as I have said elsewhere would you like what you did 30
years ago laid out today in terms of today's standards?

There is a wee bit of a difference when what the guy is saying is that
the
majority of the grunts and their leaders were guilty of war crimes. That
is
what Mr. Kerry was saying thirty years ago.



Do you think Kerry was going to lose that hot job of running that boat
in combat over some flesh wound?

Well, he turned three alleged flesh wounds into an early trip home, so he
could not have been but so enamored of that boat and its crew.

On the war crimes: were they, did
they?

Were they what? Did they what?

Lots of GIs came back with enormous psychological problems that
can't be blamed on the hot weather.

I'd recommend you read Burkett's book; we have seen a number of "PTSD"
claims from folks who never left the log/admin area and never heard a shot
fired in anger.

As I said before, you start
keeping score with a body count in a war where your mess waiter may be
an enemy colonel and you are pushing the edge of the line.

Eh?

And what *idiot* reads and believes anything in "Mother Jones"?



You are free to point out any specific errors. I am aware that you
yourself do not read anything, just listen and watch parts of C-SPAN
programs.

By the way if we are going after Kerry for saying it was a bad war
when are we going to have the trials for Caspar Weinberger, Norman
Schwarzkopf and Colin Powell, all of whom have written books and
testified before Congress on the
Vietnam War and its failures in leadership.

Fred J. McCall wrote:

You mean the one the US isn't a signatory to and that was enacted some
years AFTER the remarks of Mr Kerry? Talk about your revisionist
history, Scott! Vietnam was BEFORE that.

(Shrug) Fair enough. then take a look at Convention IV of the Hague
1907 treaties, which limits th emeans of carrying out attacks --
especially Articles 24 and 25. Take a look as well at the discussion
of the 1977 Conventions, and especially the discussion of Article 51,
which prohibits indiscriminate attacks, at
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/1a13044f...1?OpenDocument

"...1923 Article 51 is one of the most important articles in the
Protocol. It explicitly confirms the customary rule that innocent
civilians must be kept outside hostilities as far as possible and
enjoy general protection against danger arising from hostilities..."

And what programs were those? 'If you go hunt you can find some'
isn't exactly a defense of your position. Neither is "well, he
eventually voted for a Defense Appropriations Bill".

Why not, in either case? If he were as reflexively anti-military as
some people are making out, neither would be the case -- he wouldn't
be voting appropriations nor would he be supporting particular bills.
And why not go looking? So far, what I see is a cut 'n pasted list
from conservative magazines of some programmes he voted against at one
point, identical down to the commas. If I were trying to assemble a
picture of how he actually voted, I would go to the source, wouldn't
you? And you can take a look at
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...1&vote =00143
and
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...1&vote =00263
for a couple of the cases I'm talking about.

Scott

Subject: "The New Soldier" by John Kerry et al
From: (Scott MacEachern)
Date: 2/17/04 8:00 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Fred J. McCall wrote:

You mean the one the US isn't a signatory to and that was enacted some
years AFTER the remarks of Mr Kerry? Talk about your revisionist
history, Scott! Vietnam was BEFORE that.

(Shrug) Fair enough. then take a look at Convention IV of the Hague
1907 treaties, which limits th emeans of carrying out attacks --
especially Articles 24 and 25. Take a look as well at the discussion
of the 1977 Conventions, and especially the discussion of Article 51,
which prohibits indiscriminate attacks, at

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/1a13044f...6/5e5142b6ba10
2b45c12563cd00434741?OpenDocument

"...1923 Article 51 is one of the most important articles in the
Protocol. It explicitly confirms the customary rule that innocent
civilians must be kept outside hostilities as far as possible

"....as far as posssible..." That is the loophole that makes it all
meaningless.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Alan Minyard wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:56:07 -0500, "Kevin Brooks" wrote:


"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
om...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...


Now it's time for you to answer a question I didn't ask or make some
gratuitous comment about the 'cheapness' of Kerry's Purple Hearts.

Not gratuitous--the comment about the PH's is valid; can you name any
other
troops who got three of those without missing any duty days?



Technically he missed two days. Next time you've taken shrapnel in the
thigh remember those little scratches. Kerry didn't make the rules but
he played them.

Well, in the same spirit as the Kerry camp's "release Bush's records now"
chants of a few days back, I am sure a full release of any medical records
listing the severity of said wounds would be welcomed with open arms by
Kerry, right?

It's 30 years, as I have said elsewhere would you like what you did 30
years ago laid out today in terms of today's standards?

There is a wee bit of a difference when what the guy is saying is that the
majority of the grunts and their leaders were guilty of war crimes. That is
what Mr. Kerry was saying thirty years ago.

Brooks

I suspect that Kerry's "injuries" were paper cuts.



And you, of course, have survived many such paper cuts, even when you
were aware that three superficial wounds and you get to go home.

Subject: "The New Soldier" by John Kerry et al
From: (Jack Linthicum)
Date: 2/17/04 10:33 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Alan Minyard wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:56:07 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:


"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
om...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...


Now it's time for you to answer a question I didn't ask or make some
gratuitous comment about the 'cheapness' of Kerry's Purple Hearts.

Not gratuitous--the comment about the PH's is valid; can you name any
other
troops who got three of those without missing any duty days?



Technically he missed two days. Next time you've taken shrapnel in the
thigh remember those little scratches. Kerry didn't make the rules but
he played them.

Well, in the same spirit as the Kerry camp's "release Bush's records now"
chants of a few days back, I am sure a full release of any medical records
listing the severity of said wounds would be welcomed with open arms by
Kerry, right?

It's 30 years, as I have said elsewhere would you like what you did 30
years ago laid out today in terms of today's standards?

There is a wee bit of a difference when what the guy is saying is that the
majority of the grunts and their leaders were guilty of war crimes. That
is
what Mr. Kerry was saying thirty years ago.

Brooks

I suspect that Kerry's "injuries" were paper cuts.



And you, of course, have survived many such paper cuts, even when you
were aware that three superficial wounds and you get to go home.


How many Purple Hearts did you get?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
om...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
om...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
m...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...


Now it's time for you to answer a question I didn't ask or
make
some
gratuitous comment about the 'cheapness' of Kerry's Purple
Hearts.

Not gratuitous--the comment about the PH's is valid; can you
name
any
other
troops who got three of those without missing any duty days?



Technically he missed two days. Next time you've taken shrapnel in
the
thigh remember those little scratches. Kerry didn't make the rules
but
he played them.

Well, in the same spirit as the Kerry camp's "release Bush's records
now"
chants of a few days back, I am sure a full release of any medical
records
listing the severity of said wounds would be welcomed with open arms
by
Kerry, right?

It's 30 years, as I have said elsewhere would you like what you
did 30
years ago laid out today in terms of today's standards?

There is a wee bit of a difference when what the guy is saying is
that
the
majority of the grunts and their leaders were guilty of war crimes.
That
is
what Mr. Kerry was saying thirty years ago.



Do you think Kerry was going to lose that hot job of running that boat
in combat over some flesh wound?

Well, he turned three alleged flesh wounds into an early trip home, so
he
could not have been but so enamored of that boat and its crew.

On the war crimes: were they, did
they?

Were they what? Did they what?

Lots of GIs came back with enormous psychological problems that
can't be blamed on the hot weather.

I'd recommend you read Burkett's book; we have seen a number of "PTSD"
claims from folks who never left the log/admin area and never heard a
shot
fired in anger.

As I said before, you start
keeping score with a body count in a war where your mess waiter may be
an enemy colonel and you are pushing the edge of the line.

Eh?

And what *idiot* reads and believes anything in "Mother Jones"?



You are free to point out any specific errors. I am aware that you
yourself do not read anything, just listen and watch parts of C-SPAN
programs.

Coming from a guy with an imaginary history of demolitions expertise gained
at Camp Perry, the above is a hoot.


By the way if we are going after Kerry for saying it was a bad war
when are we going to have the trials for Caspar Weinberger, Norman
Schwarzkopf and Colin Powell, all of whom have written books and
testified before Congress on the
Vietnam War and its failures in leadership.

None of the above came home and started claiming that the majority of their
brethren in arms who saw combat were "war criminals". Recognizing
shortcomings and acting to correct them is one thing--blowing false war
crimes claims out one's bunghole is quite another.

Brooks

In article 6SnYb.450$Ru5.434@okepread03,
"D. Strang" wrote:

"Pete" wrote

Like the 5000 software develpment positions that IBM is moving to India and
China?

Do you know anyone who uses IBM software? Let's get realistic here.

They don't do games...they *do* sell a lot of expensive enterprise
software, which other companies use to run their businesses.

BUFDRVR wrote:

He's probably referring to the brouhaha over the increases in HDP and
FSA that Congress authorized in April '03 (retroactive to October '02),
which were set to expire in October '03 if they weren't made permanent
by Congress.

OK, I do remember that, but that was a congressional issue, not a
presidential one.


You'd never have guessed that, though, based on the reporting in most
mainstream media outlets.

-Marc
--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m

(ArtKramr) wrote in message ...
Subject: "The New Soldier" by John Kerry et al
From: (Jack Linthicum)
Date: 2/17/04 10:33 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Alan Minyard wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:56:07 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:


"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
om...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...


Now it's time for you to answer a question I didn't ask or make some
gratuitous comment about the 'cheapness' of Kerry's Purple Hearts.

Not gratuitous--the comment about the PH's is valid; can you name any
other
troops who got three of those without missing any duty days?



Technically he missed two days. Next time you've taken shrapnel in the
thigh remember those little scratches. Kerry didn't make the rules but
he played them.

Well, in the same spirit as the Kerry camp's "release Bush's records now"
chants of a few days back, I am sure a full release of any medical records
listing the severity of said wounds would be welcomed with open arms by
Kerry, right?

It's 30 years, as I have said elsewhere would you like what you did 30
years ago laid out today in terms of today's standards?

There is a wee bit of a difference when what the guy is saying is that the
majority of the grunts and their leaders were guilty of war crimes. That
is
what Mr. Kerry was saying thirty years ago.

Brooks

I suspect that Kerry's "injuries" were paper cuts.



And you, of course, have survived many such paper cuts, even when you
were aware that three superficial wounds and you get to go home.


How many Purple Hearts did you get?




It is a rule in the Naval Security Group that if you see combat, even
at a distance, you will lose your unbiased perspective. I was in
during the tough years, 1959-65.

"Steve Hix" wrote
"D. Strang" wrote:

"Pete" wrote

Like the 5000 software develpment positions that IBM is moving to India and
China?

Do you know anyone who uses IBM software? Let's get realistic here.

They don't do games...they *do* sell a lot of expensive enterprise
software, which other companies use to run their businesses.

Our company was 100% IBM AIX since 1988. We finally had to let them go last
year.