When to acknowledge ATC

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

But if you fly IFR or use flight following you'll get
an altimeter setting when you check in with a new controller.

Understood. I don't have an instrument rating and didn't get far enough on that
training to have run into this. I have a personal dislike of flight following,
so I don't take advantage of this service.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

aaronw wrote:

When I've asked for a Bravo clearance, and they have to check with
another controller, they'll sometimes come back with something like
the above... Just directions that would be take me into the Bravo
without the explicit 'cleared into the bravo'. I'll usually read
those back with 'understand cleared into the bravo' appended to the
end so there is no mistaking things.

Good idea. I'll remember that if I get in that situation again.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

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A Lieberman wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2005 02:02:40 GMT, George Patterson wrote:

Since I am quoting the regulations, I'd suspect that your New York ATC
folks may want to take a look at the above ATC chapter.

Climbing instructions you received is clearly not a clearance into Bravo
airspace. You absolutely must hear the words Cleared into Bravo. It's
required that ATC clears you AND you are required to read back this
clearance.

Thank you. This is EXACTLY what I've been trying to get at all
along in this thread. You *MUST* hear 'Cleared into Class Bravo
Airspace' to be allowed to enter Bravo airspace. That is your clearance
into it. Even the FARs state it:

Sec. 91.131 - Operations in Class B airspace.

(a) Operating rules. No person may operate an aircraft within a Class B
airspace area except in compliance with ?91.129 and the following
rules:

(1) The operator must receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility
having jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that
area.

Some people just fail to understand that.

Even more than that, if they tell you to remain outside of
Bravo airspace, or any airspace, and give you a reason, pilots are
requested to read that back. ATC is going to expect a readback. If not,
they will repeat it. If no readback is given, they aren't going to
*ASSUME* anything. They aren't going to think 'oh, he heard it, let me
worry about separating my aircraft flying into JFK, LAS', or any major
field, they are going to get that readback from you, or send up the
F18s to escort you down/shoot you down, depending on how grave the
situation is.

Class C, on the other hand, requires 2-way comunication. When
that is established, unless told otherwise, you have clearance through
Class C airspace. If ATC tells you to not enter it, for whatever
reason, you don't enter it. In short, once again, if the 2-way
communication is established between pilot and ATC, the clearance
into/through Class C airspace is implied, and pilots may fly through.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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"George Patterson"

Understood. I don't have an instrument rating and didn't get far enough on
that training to have run into this. I have a personal dislike of flight
following, so I don't take advantage of this service.

Lordy, why? VFR in low ceilings means that almost everyone is flying just
below the clouds. Why wouldn't you want to have flight following in those
conditions? It's free. What's the issue?

moo

I often listen to the tower at Pease tradeport (and National Guard
base) across the bay. Professional pilots regularly thank the tower,
and routinely say "G'day" upon departing the Delta airspace.

If I am flying through the airspace low and slow for a tour of Great
Bay, I call upon leaving the Class D to give my position and altitude
and to say "Thank you Pease!"

Perhaps things are more formal in Charlie airspace; I don't know.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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the blog: www.danford.net
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On Sat, 07 May 2005 20:48:12 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

Correct, unless otherwise indicated. Some control zones require Mode C.


We don't have control zones in the US, haven't had them for almost twelve
years now. When we did have them none of them required Mode C.

Well, we have Mode C zones! There's a big ring around Boston that I
generally avoid, though I am legal to fly through it without a
transponder.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:23:35 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
et::


"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...

As I said in a previous post, I'm from Canada.

You'd probably do well to make that distinction when you post.


Mr. Dog does make his location reasonably known. If you look at the
'From' header of his articles:

From: "Happy Dog"

You'll note the domain of his e-mail address is: sympatico.ca

You're probably aware that '.ca' domain names indicate their location
to be Canada.

On Sun, 08 May 2005 02:32:08 GMT, George Patterson
wrote in ISefe.3205$EC6.1616@trndny06:

I have a personal dislike of flight following, so I don't take
advantage of this service.

The thought of ATC's intrusion into the reverie of our aerial
operations is displeasing. But anyone who fails to avail themselves
of Radar Traffic Advisory Service in the Los Angeles basin just
doesn't appreciate the magnitude of aerial congestion in the vicinity.

I have a personal dislike for scanning for traffic, but it is
preferable to a MAC.

Cub Driver wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2005 20:48:12 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


Correct, unless otherwise indicated. Some control zones require Mode C.


We don't have control zones in the US, haven't had them for almost twelve
years now. When we did have them none of them required Mode C.


Well, we have Mode C zones! There's a big ring around Boston that I
generally avoid, though I am legal to fly through it without a
transponder.

The Mode C veil existed at the same time control zones existed. When
the airspace was "alphabetized" the term control zone was deleted in
lieu of the term "surface area of controlled airspace designated for
an airport" (which is pretty close to the old definition of the control
zone with a lot of the flaky differences removed).

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net

Altimeter settings don't tend to vary a great deal from one
controller to the next. If you're issued one that differs by more
than a few points from the previous then it's a good idea to check on
it.

This is true. However, one of the exceptions I remember was back when the
remains of hurricane/tropical storm Ivan were rumbling around my flight
path. The low pressure system definitely caused a very significant change
in altimeter settings from one sector to the next - so much so that I
thought I misunderstood her call the first time.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
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