Dangerous Cessna evacuates govt again

Could be dangerous unless you are trained in formation flying. ;^)

In article ,
says...
Granted, the current rules are nonsense but that doesn't give these two
nitwits the go ahead to fly into the restricted area. That's not how you
fix stupid rules. That's how you get more stupid rules.

Just idly thinking here after two glasses of wine, but what if =all= the
spam cans in the country formed a line and flew directly over the white
house at 2000 feet with no transponder code and no clearance, and kept
doing it even as we were being shot down? What do you think the
eventual effect of this would be?

Jose

How many glasses of wine?

On Thu, 12 May 2005 00:12:48 GMT, Jose
wrote:

Granted, the current rules are nonsense but that doesn't give these two
nitwits the go ahead to fly into the restricted area. That's not how you
fix stupid rules. That's how you get more stupid rules.

Just idly thinking here after two glasses of wine, but what if =all= the
spam cans in the country formed a line and flew directly over the white
house at 2000 feet with no transponder code and no clearance, and kept
doing it even as we were being shot down? What do you think the
eventual effect of this would be?

Jose

A pilot shortage.
Rich Russell

"Jose" wrote in message
...
Granted, the current rules are nonsense but that doesn't give these two
nitwits the go ahead to fly into the restricted area. That's not how you
fix stupid rules. That's how you get more stupid rules.

Just idly thinking here after two glasses of wine, but what if =all= the
spam cans in the country formed a line and flew directly over the white
house at 2000 feet with no transponder code and no clearance, and kept
doing it even as we were being shot down? What do you think the eventual
effect of this would be?


I love it: America hasn't had a decent civil disobedience protest for a
while.

The French population tried it on the Bastille in 1789.

The US civil rights movement tried it many times during the 1950's and 60's.

The students of Kent State tried it May 4, 1970. Americans killed 4 of
them.

From the outside looking in, I would expect the result to be similar to Kent
State. A few Americans may die. The population may be outraged and
recognize the futility of their government's policies, or it may nod its
head sagely and say the pilots had it coming. It depends on whether they
value "freedom and democracy", or prefer feudal dependance.

Twenty or thirty years later everyone will wonder what all the fuss was
about, because by then some other equally "important" disaster will have
befallen.... and whether man-made or natural, physical or political or
economic, it will come from a totally unexpected and unplanned-for source.

On 11 May 2005 18:51:01 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote:

The latest report on WTOP (news station in DC) was that the aircraft WAS
squawking the correct code, but that there was some sort of communications
problem. I'm glad to see that everyone was so willing to jump on top of
our brother pilots.

The ADIZ procedures require immediate egress from the ADIZ upon lost
comms through shortest-exit to the boundary. It was added after the
incident before Reagan's funeral. Issues with the ADIZ itself and
problems created by pilots not following procedures therein have been
not infrequent since it's inception. So, fine, you're flying along
for some minutes, in a busy area, hearing nothing on the radio (or at
a minimum not being able to get any transmissions acknowledged) and
haven't proceeded out of the area per the procedures, on a course that
is coming close to P-63 (is it 63?), and *still* don't change course
when the fighters fly up and start dropping flares in front of you,
and people aren't supposed to express frustration at the pilots
involved?

Peter Clark wrote:
On 11 May 2005 18:51:01 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote:


The latest report on WTOP (news station in DC) was that the aircraft WAS
squawking the correct code, but that there was some sort of communications
problem. I'm glad to see that everyone was so willing to jump on top of
our brother pilots.


The ADIZ procedures require immediate egress from the ADIZ upon lost
comms through shortest-exit to the boundary.

That restriction is only for lost TRANSPONDER capability. And of course
it presumes that the pilot knows the transponder is out.

It was added after the
incident before Reagan's funeral. Issues with the ADIZ itself and
problems created by pilots not following procedures therein have been
not infrequent since it's inception.

You can't blame the whole ADIZ piece of **** on pilots. It took
badgering the FAA for over a year to get them to chart the blasted
thing for example. The TRACON and the other political entities
are still having ****ing matches over operations (or else the
Kentucky governor fiasco wouldn't have happened either).

On Wed, 11 May 2005 17:29:43 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
On 11 May 2005 18:51:01 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote:


The latest report on WTOP (news station in DC) was that the aircraft WAS
squawking the correct code, but that there was some sort of communications
problem. I'm glad to see that everyone was so willing to jump on top of
our brother pilots.


The ADIZ procedures require immediate egress from the ADIZ upon lost
comms through shortest-exit to the boundary.

That restriction is only for lost TRANSPONDER capability. And of course
it presumes that the pilot knows the transponder is out.

K, I must have been confusing (or combining it) with another notam.

You can't blame the whole ADIZ piece of **** on pilots. It took
badgering the FAA for over a year to get them to chart the blasted
thing for example. The TRACON and the other political entities
are still having ****ing matches over operations (or else the
Kentucky governor fiasco wouldn't have happened either).

I'm not blaming the whole ADIZ fiasco on pilots, it's a ridiculous
waste of energy to put on an ineffective show. But the area isn't an
unknown any more, flying towards the prohibited airspace (unless they
were vectored towards it?) contained within it isn't exactly smart
even if you do have a transponder and 2way comms, and things like this
make it more difficult on the people who want to but can't figure out
how to get rid of it yet not have to admit it was the wrong thing to
do in the first place.

Peter Clark wrote:
I'm not blaming the whole ADIZ fiasco on pilots, it's a ridiculous
waste of energy to put on an ineffective show. But the area isn't an
unknown any more, flying towards the prohibited airspace (unless they
were vectored towards it?) contained within it isn't exactly smart
even if you do have a transponder and 2way comms, and things like this
make it more difficult on the people who want to but can't figure out
how to get rid of it yet not have to admit it was the wrong thing to
do in the first place.

One of the local stations apparently interviewed the student pilot's wife
(by phone). Apparently, he was well aware of the ADIZ and was worried
about navigating around it (or through it with the proper squawk). It
sounds to me like some kind of simple navigation problem that was allowed
to expand to some level of disorientation.

This is why a no-fly zone (enforced by deadly force) doesn't make any
sense in a free society. Human beings make mistakes from time to time,
and we're not living in the Soviet Union.

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

WOW!
One would have to be pretty stupid to fly over DC in todays world. I can
understand the "No Fly Zone" policy, but I can't understand why all the cops
in the area have to act like Soviet paratroopers are descending around
Washington Monument.
When onboard the USS Iwo Jima we almost had to shoot down a small GA
plane in the Med. He invaded our airspace, after the second warning battle
stations were called, all the cool anti aircraft machine guns and missles
came online. The Captain had them try him one last time and he waved his
wings and turned around. I often wonder if he actually realized how close to
dying he was.
So I can agree with most and say the DC police act like a bunch of bent
out of shape Campfire Girls running around screaming , but if a US Warship
has protected airspace..shouldn't the Capital of the US? What excuse could a
pilot give in VFR conditions for being to close to DC? Oh I didn't know what
DC looked like? I agree with the take their license away.
The news channels were saying that it would take the plane 90 seconds to
reach the Capital or White House from the 3 mile radius....bet that 3 mile
becomes 10 miles soon. We can thank this latest idiot as well as the
Governor of Kentucky's pilots!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

W P Dixon wrote:

WOW!
One would have to be pretty stupid to fly over DC in todays world. I
can understand the "No Fly Zone" policy, but I can't understand why all
the cops in the area have to act like Soviet paratroopers are descending
around Washington Monument.
Yeah, well it was a student pilot for God's sake. Lets Burn him/her at the stake.

When onboard the USS Iwo Jima we almost had to shoot down a small GA
plane in the Med. He invaded our airspace, after the second warning
battle stations were called, all the cool anti aircraft machine guns and
missles came online. The Captain had them try him one last time and he
waved his wings and turned around. I often wonder if he actually
realized how close to dying he was.
A military vessel at sea is a lot different than US city that is supposed
to be the epitome of freedom in the civilized word.

So I can agree with most and say the DC police act like a bunch of
bent out of shape Campfire Girls running around screaming , but if a US
Warship has protected airspace..shouldn't the Capital of the US? What
excuse could a pilot give in VFR conditions for being to close to DC? Oh
I didn't know what DC looked like? I agree with the take their license
away.

As I said, it was a stedent pilot... sheesh. And why not shut down the
airspace around all US cities while we are at it? After all, Don Daley
destroyed an airport in Chicago proportedly because of the "threat" of
these dangerous GA aircraft.

The news channels were saying that it would take the plane 90 seconds
to reach the Capital or White House from the 3 mile radius....bet that 3
mile becomes 10 miles soon. We can thank this latest idiot as well as
the Governor of Kentucky's pilots!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech