We're getting old, folks...

In article om,
Jay Honeck wrote:
So what's the solution? How do we make flying more feminine? How do
we attract females to the airport?

I can only comment on my situation, but I don't think it's uncommon.
The issue with my wife is not the lack of "feminity" of flying; she has
an interest in model trains, which is a very male-dominated hobby in my
experience. Her issue with flying boils down to her fear of dying in a
fiery airplane crash.

I suspect that is really an issue of lack of familiarity; she didn't
know anyone that was a pilot growing up (neither did I, FWIW), and as
a result she perceives flying as something strange and unusual. If
she had flown in a GA plane as a child, or even been on a Young Eagles
flight, her attitude would be very different. I am not sure what
the solution is here, other than to get more pilots into the system.

That's why I think Sport Pilot is important for the long-term health
of GA. The people now that I see who are active GA pilots seem to fall
into one of three categories:

- They make it an integral part of their lifestyle (that's obviously
you, Jay :-) ). I think relatively few people have this option.
- They use it for business and can write off part of their aviation
expense. This doesn't seem to be an option for anyone who works
for a large company; when I've talked with other people in my
field, they _all_ told me that they have explicit corporate policies
against using GA for corporate travel (I'm in the same boat).
- They have plenty of spare cash, or somehow they got a plane on the
cheap. Or they have figured something out to make plane ownership
affordable that has escaped me.

I think Sport Pilot can work for people like me; they've got _some_
spare cash to devote to flying, but not enough to spend on a bigger
plane. I'm not talking about the $80,000 Cubs, but I've seen a few
planes in the $50,000 range that could even haul around a few fatasses
like me. Split that with one other person, and you've got a reasonable
new car payment.

My wife, Mary, is living proof that flying is NOT an all-male
pass-time, but I know she likes to hang out at the hangar entertaining
friends nearly as much as she likes the flying. So how do we make the
airport more SOCIAL?

I dunno ... I have never seen any sort of social life at any of the
airports that I've been to, much less anything I'd think my wife would
be interested in. Most of the airports I've visited have been lifeless,
depressing places. If there was some sort of social life associated with
aviation, I think it could maybe get my wife interested in flying; she
would at least get a sense that "normal" people do it. Right now I
think she thinks that flying is reserved for rich people and wackos
like me :-/

--Ken

Roger wrote:
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 13:31:26 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:


Jim Logajan wrote:


"Tom Conner" wrote:


This is like trying to get women to take engineering in college.
Although they have the intelligence, for whatever reason, women would
rather get a business degree than an engineering degree.

[ Nonsense elided. ]

The proportion of women in the sciences has increased over the years and as
of 2001 roughly 30% to 40% of graduate students in the sciences are women,
with 54% of graduate students in biological sciences being women.[1]

In 2001, it appears roughly as many women as men were awarded science and
engineering bachelor's degrees - and there were more women than men earning
bachelor's degrees of all types.[2]

[1] http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/wmpd/figd-1.htm
[2] http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/wmpd/figc-1.htm

He said engineering, not science. If you look at the engineering
numbers, women earn fewer than 1/4 of the degrees issued each year. It
is improving to be sure, but not even close to parity.


Why just engineering? Science and Engineering are both technical
degrees.

Beats me, you'll have to ask Tom. Engineering requires both strong
science and strong visualization skills, especially in 3-D. For reasons
I don't claim to understand, this seems to not appeal to women as much
as men.


Matt

So how do we make the
airport more SOCIAL?

I dunno ... I have never seen any sort of social life at any of the
airports that I've been to, much less anything I'd think my wife would
be interested in. Most of the airports I've visited have been lifeless,
depressing places. If there was some sort of social life associated with
aviation, I think it could maybe get my wife interested in flying

Social activities at an airport are often spur of the moment things, and --
as a result -- hard to find. Many are put together by (and for) the
regulars that hang out there on a daily basis, which is truly a shame.
It's hard to grow aviation when it becomes ingrown like that, but I think
it's more a function of the airport environment than a reflection of the
people involved.

It's hard to maintain any contact with one another when hangars are
scattered and seldom attended. Heck, when I see a friend on the other side
of the airport, it can be a 15 minute walk just to get to his hangar! So,
we keep an old bike a the hangar, or we drive -- or we just wave.

What is necessary for a consistent airport social life is a central "spark
plug" to keep everyone together -- which usually means the FBO owner's wife,
or someone in the on-field pilot's organization. Our airport currently
lacks this spark plug (it's sorta us, but we just don't have enough time in
the summer to really make it happen), so our airport's social life is
sporadic and (sadly) not growing.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article PPasf.679088$xm3.281129@attbi_s21,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

So how do we make the
airport more SOCIAL?

I dunno ... I have never seen any sort of social life at any of the
airports that I've been to, much less anything I'd think my wife would
be interested in. Most of the airports I've visited have been lifeless,
depressing places. If there was some sort of social life associated with
aviation, I think it could maybe get my wife interested in flying

Social activities at an airport are often spur of the moment things, and --
as a result -- hard to find. Many are put together by (and for) the
regulars that hang out there on a daily basis, which is truly a shame.
It's hard to grow aviation when it becomes ingrown like that, but I think
it's more a function of the airport environment than a reflection of the
people involved.

add to that the idiotic "security" measures put in place (and continuing to be
put in place) and the airport isn't going to get more social. :-(

--
Bob Noel
New NHL? what a joke

add to that the idiotic "security" measures put in place (and continuing
to be
put in place) and the airport isn't going to get more social. :-(

Well, I don't see much difference at our airport. There's still a perimeter
fence, and gates with combination locks, just like there's been forever.
Nothing has been added, but that's apparently enough to stifle the casual
observer.

We're working hard to bring people to the airport for our Big Kids Toy Show
next May (see details at www.BigKidsToyShow.com ), and there's another
fly-in breakfast in August -- but we need to find more consistent ways of
bringing new blood to the airport.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
First, my wife does not like flying.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this from a pilot, I'd be rich.

What *is* it with you guys, all hanging around with gals who don't like to
fly?

(This started out being a joke-question, but upon reflection, I think I'll
leave off the "smiley"... It's a damned serious question, really, and gets
to the root of why so many guys ultimately quit flying...)

People always ask Rod Machado what he did to get his wife to fly.
He pushes off the question as long as he can. Finally, he replies:
"You know, I had that problem with my first wife".

Sad, but true. Fortunately, I learned to fly at 21, and after I got
my private pilot certificate, first dates were flying... if she
didn't like flying, there was no second date.

Further, fortunately, my wife's father was a pilot (private, VFR),
so by the time I got her, it was already "normal" to get in an
airplane and go somewhere for the weekend. That was great, so I
married her! We also square dance, ballroom dance ski, camp and
scuba dive. But, she doesn't like fishing... go figure. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction/mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 235 Young Eagles!

Ya know, I never thought of it that way, but I wasted my first semester
college in engineering classes. Thought I'd never been as bored in my life,
breaking this, bending that, getting out the 'red rubber ball' data book to
solve problems...

Spent the next 4 years in modern/nuclear physics and never looked back.
Wrenching my way through college with the airlines gave me the "mechanic"
side of it, and it has been a ball from then on.

Thanks for your insight...

Jim



"Roger" wrote in message

Besides, engineers are the educated mechanics who put together the
items developed by the scientists. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Ripped off from an ancient Gordon Baxter line.

Jim



wrote in message ...

People always ask Rod Machado what he did to get his wife to fly.
He pushes off the question as long as he can. Finally, he replies:
"You know, I had that problem with my first wife".

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Roger wrote:
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 13:31:26 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:


Jim Logajan wrote:


"Tom Conner" wrote:


This is like trying to get women to take engineering in college.
Although they have the intelligence, for whatever reason, women would
rather get a business degree than an engineering degree.

[ Nonsense elided. ]

The proportion of women in the sciences has increased over the years
and as
of 2001 roughly 30% to 40% of graduate students in the sciences are
women,
with 54% of graduate students in biological sciences being women.[1]

In 2001, it appears roughly as many women as men were awarded science
and
engineering bachelor's degrees - and there were more women than men
earning
bachelor's degrees of all types.[2]

[1] http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/wmpd/figd-1.htm
[2] http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/wmpd/figc-1.htm

He said engineering, not science. If you look at the engineering
numbers, women earn fewer than 1/4 of the degrees issued each year. It
is improving to be sure, but not even close to parity.


Why just engineering? Science and Engineering are both technical
degrees.

Beats me, you'll have to ask Tom. Engineering requires both strong
science and strong visualization skills, especially in 3-D. For reasons
I don't claim to understand, this seems to not appeal to women as much
as men.


Beats me. Maybe because engineers are judged by what they invent and not by
how they are dressed.

Personally, I think the mindset required to master the technical details
associated with learning to fly is similar to the mindset needed to get an
engineering degree. This might be one reason why men dominate both
activities. Whether the mindset is cultural, genetic, or a combination is
unknown, but I suspect cultural since China and India produce a large number
of female engineers.

Tom Conner wrote:

Personally, I think the mindset required to master the technical details
associated with learning to fly is similar to the mindset needed to get an
engineering degree.

I hope not.

Not being an engineer, my perception of what it would involve might turn
me to the law instead. The flying mindset could be related to both, I
suppose, but I am thankful I never had to find out first-hand.


Jack