Busted TFR, what to expect?

Mike wrote:
Thomas Borchert wrote:
Bob,

Obviously the current system isn't working well.


So you didn't even check? And you do tha regularly? Jeeze, wtf do you
expect? This makes what happened entirely your fault, I'm afraid. And,

What's funny is the guy keeps saying he didn't know the President was in
town. I think this is a case of not doing the pre-flight homework. I
knew about the TFR two days before it went into effect.

On an extended trip, a "pop-up" TFR can appear after you've checked
NOTAMs prior to departure. The only way I can think of to avoid these
is to be talking to ATC (e.g., under IFR or with flight following)
during your flight. I'm not sure if the satellite service providers
have enough notification to identify pop-up TFRs. While Bob and the
pilot described in the news article Mike identified probably violated
TFRs that were in a published NOTAM, a pop-up NOTAM can be difficult to
avoid if you're flying VFR and are not talking to ATC.

Also, I recall from an AOPA article that some TFRs are mobile. For
example, there are TFRs over and around the president and the vice
president no matter where they happen to be, including when they are
moving. Their precise movements and positions are justifiably
unpublished until the last possible moment for obvious reasons, and so
these TFRs can also be difficult to avoid if you're not talking to ATC.
I don't know if the satellite service providers find out about these
in time, either.

I think the days of taking off after merely checking the fuel tanks and
kicking the tire, and flying VFR wherever interest leads us, are gone
in large metropolitan areas. In my view, taking off without checking
weather and NOTAMs is reckless behavior, whether in a metropolitan area
or elsewhere. I think there's also an argument that not talking to ATC
during flight in metropolitan areas is negligent behavior.

By penetrating TFRs without ATC authorization, negligent pilots are
making it all the easier for opponents of general aviation to make
their case with Congress and others.

In my opinion, we should:
1) Check weather and NOTAMs with FSS before EVERY flight;
2) talk to ATC by either filing and flying IFR or getting flight
following; and
3) encourage every pilot you know to do the same.

It may restrict the freedom we value so much, but will go a long way
toward trying to ensure that we don't lose that freedom altogether.

Newps wrote:


A preflight before every flight? I don't think so. Once a day. Check
the stall warner? Every year at the annual.

I do it once a day, unless the aircraft has been moved by ground
handlers, then I spend an entire extra 15 minutes.

A "three loop" preflight doesn't take more than 15 minutes on my
Sundowner. Maybe an extra 3 is required if I need to clean the windshield.

After removing the pitot cover & cowl plugs:

Loop One (3 minutes) (start in cockpit):
Record numbers
Controls free and correct
Master on
Fuel pump on - chk pressure
Fuel pump off
All lights and pitot heat on
- leave plane, chk all lights, strobes, pitot heat, stall horn
Master off
Flaps extended - leave for loop two

Loop Two (10-12 mins)(grab GATS jar):
Left flap
Left Aileron
Left Tip
Sight Wing
Left LE
Left tie down (remove)
Eyeball left fuel
Drain fuel sample
Check left wheel, tire & brake while cup fills
Check sample, return to tank if OK
Left Nose
Nose Gear
Spinner
Prop
Alternator Belt
Cowl openings
Check Oil & cover security
Right Nose
Drain gascolator
Eyeball and check belly panels and antennae
Eyeball right fuel
Pour gascolator sample in right tank (if good)
Pull right sample as I eyeball tire, wheel and brake
Check Sample
Right LE
Right tie down
Right Tip
Sight wing skin
Right Aileron
Right Flap
Right Static Port
Right Stabilator
Trim tab
Eyeball fuselage skin (both sides)
Rudder
Tail tie down
Left Stabilator
Left Static port
Toss GATS jar back in baggage area
Secure baggage area
Pull chock

Loop Three (20 seconds)
Walk around, viewing overall picture from 10-15 feet away

Clean windshield (if necessary)
Return to cockpit
Retract flaps

Stuff like the lights, stall horn, etc... take what, 5 seconds each to
check during the first orbit? G

This procedure takes almost as long to write out as it does to do, and
automatically checks for ice, ground damage, stolen fuel, etc... Unless
you're flying an airliner, where's the waste?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:WFDdg.3821$1i1.3343@attbi_s72...
Check nav lights and rotating beacon

You check them on EVERY flight? I only check those before a night flight.
(And my rotating beacon was removed years ago, in lieu of strobes.)

Of course you check them on every flight. Your strobes are required even in
daytime. And the other lights, well...would you rather learn they were
inoperative when you don't need them, or just before you were planning to
head out at night, thus forcing the flight to be scrubbed?

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:WFDdg.3821$1i1.3343@attbi_s72...
Check nav lights and rotating beacon
You check them on EVERY flight? I only check those before a night flight.
(And my rotating beacon was removed years ago, in lieu of strobes.)

Of course you check them on every flight. Your strobes are required even in
daytime. And the other lights, well...would you rather learn they were
inoperative when you don't need them, or just before you were planning to
head out at night, thus forcing the flight to be scrubbed?

That is exactly why I check them before every flight, and also why I
carry a spare 7512-12V in the little junk box in the back.

-jav

Peter Duniho wrote:
Your strobes are required even in
daytime.

So a Cub with no electrical system, can't fly day vfr?

I guarantee you that in three minutes, you do NOT check "every screw, bolt
and connector".

You are fooling yourself if you think that three minutes is sufficient
time for a preflight inspection.

Well, maybe it's my familiarity with the bird. No, I'm not checking the
torque of every bolt, but I do use the fuel tester Phillips screw driver to
check screws for tightness. And I always sump the tanks, and check the
oil.

Additionally, I visually inspect every control surface hinge and manually
move each control surface, checking for proper hinge pin placement, etc.
On my plane, it's not possible to "open the engine up" (like we used to do
in our Warrior), so that saves me a bit of time, too. (Time I'd rather
spend, quite frankly; our one-piece fiberglass cowl may look better than the
Warriors, but I sure miss being able to visually inspect the engine before
each flight.)

I have no idea what could take more than 3 - 5 minutes, unless you find
something suspicious. Hopefully, that's a rare occasion, indeed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

The Visitor wrote:
Peter Duniho wrote:
Your strobes are required even in
daytime.

So a Cub with no electrical system, can't fly day vfr?

I think FAR 91.209 (b) covers this - IF the plane is equipped with
anticollision lights they must lighted (unless the PIC determines in the
interest of safety they should be turned off). So a plane not even equipped
with them is naturally not required to light them!

I've still got 12 to 17 minutes left. What're you doing that I'm not?

Sampling/draining all five fuel sumps?

Yep.

Testing the stall warning
switch

Yep.

& ELT operation

Nope. But mine is brand, spanking new.

inspecting the brake linings, looking for
hydraulic leaks, tire treads

No-can-do with Fancy Pants. Everything is inside. But I inspect for
puddles.

pitot/static ports

Yep.

prop condition,
spinner attachment

Yep.

http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUC...info.asp?ID=29

Your list counts a lot of stuff that I prefer to do more as "daily
maintenance" than "pre-flight". For example, cleaning the windshield is a
whole different thing when it's your plane, in your hangar. As a renter,
cleaning the windshield was a "pre-flight" item. As an owner, it's a
"post-flight" item, so that the plane is ready to go for the next flight.
Same with fueling.

My pre-flight checks have evolved over the years. As previously stated, I
don't check my nav lights anymore unless I'm anticipating a night flight.
(Do you fly with them on in the daytime?) Strobes are checked as a roll
past my hangar rows, and I view their reflection. Checking my landing light
before engine start used to be a critical item; now, with three of them,
it's a non-event. (I can see them from the cockpit now...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

This procedure takes almost as long to write out as it does to do

Well, it sure didn't take me 15 minutes to read. Honestly, I think some of
you guys are experiencing time-elongation during preflight...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"The Visitor" wrote in message
...
Peter Duniho wrote:
Your strobes are required even in daytime.

So a Cub with no electrical system, can't fly day vfr?

No, and that's not what I said. Your reading comprehension is pitiful.

I wrote "YOUR strobes are required even in daytime". Jay's airplane is
equipped with strobes, and no rotating beacon (so they are his
anti-collision lights). As such, they are required to be lit during all
operations, including daytime.

Pete