most anti-aviation city in the nation

"Dan Horton" wrote in message
ups.com...
If he has the time and money to fight this he should continue the
fight.

It has not been an effective strategy so far. The fight can
continue more effectively with Brian out of sight. His presence
makes
it an emotional issue for the other side; they are just as dead set
on
"winning" as he is. Having no individual target eliminates a lot of
that emotion. It takes away their will to fight. That's smart.

A lot of you have said "the EAA needs to jump on this". You're
right. The situation needs third part mediation, in a quiet room
with
a rational opposition. Right now it is impossible. An EAA
volunteer
attorney can't get much done with Brian outside the door playing the
role of the thorn. There is no loss to being smart enough to clear
the
field for a more powerful ally.

Sometimes we lose sight of the goal because we get wrapped up in
the fight. The goal here is not a "win" for Brian. It is to
reverse
the ordinance. There is no way Brian's strategy will convince a
city
councilman to sponsor a resolution rescinding the ordinance.

Looking at the pictures of his neighbors he has a good chance of
winning based on what is stored in others yards.

Ever try to fight a speeding ticket on the grounds that
everybody
else was speeding?

Dan Horton


Well, it's a little different being singled out over things stored on
your acre when everybody else stores things on theirs and you're being
selected for enforcement. You can make a reasonable argument in court
against that while you can't fuss about an 80 in a 55 when everybody
else is doing it. The patrolman can't bust everybody for speeding, so
he picks out one unlucky target, and that deters the rest of them.

Well, it's a little different being singled out over things stored on
your acre when everybody else stores things on theirs and you're being
selected for enforcement. You can make a reasonable argument in court
against that...

Sure, you can make it. Can you win with it? If not a sure thing,
can you put a percentage on it?

Dan

and if the city council isn't enough of a headach, we always have the
hoa to add to the misery: copied from msn headlines today.
Wind chimes hanging from front porches, basketball hoops in driveways,
shampoo bottles on bathroom windowsills. Innocent markers of daily
life? Depends on where -- and among whom -- you live.

For the 57 million Americans living under homeowner's associations
(HOAs), these can be flagrant violations of their neighborhood
regulations, costing them hundreds in fines -- and at the worst, their
very homes.

"No one tells buyers what deep doo-doo they can get into," says George
Staropoli, who lives in an HOA in Scottsdale, Ariz., and founded
Citizens For Constitutional Local Government, a homeowner's rights
group. "It's a government outside the U.S. government."

it's really all about power, isn't it. it has nothing to do with
rights, privileges, fairness or common sense. when u realize how much
the housing market makes up, of the worth of this country, it becomes
obvious why a city would have such a knee jerk response to a perceived
problem of loss of possible revenue from the property tax base. brian
lives in one of the older residential sections of the city, that has a
well established and deeply entrenched retiree populace, that is just
looking out for number one. and can u blame em? they have nothing
else left in life to look forward to. when they croak, estate taxes on
a well manicured retirees home is certainly worth more without some
rundown junk yard next door.

at least the wright brothers had a bicycle shop to work out of so the
residential neighbors didn't have a chance to stop aviation before it
could begin.

Dave wrote:
Brian, hide the aircraft and take up making steel drums. It takes a long
time to beat one of those suckers into shape. Invite a nice carribean band
over to help you tune it, at 8. AM, on Sunday.

"Dan Horton" wrote in message
ups.com...
I hate to use the analogy, but a lot of African Americans were
against the civil rights movement, fearing that it was just gong to
stirr up trouble and the backlash would make things worse for them.

Yep, and MLK insisted that the movement stick to peaceful protest
only. The other side wanted a fight and certainly tried to provoke one
at every turn. That would have undermined support from very effective
allies like the Justice Department, not to mention the average citizen.

Nobody here proposes that we not work to eliminate the ordinance.
We need to be smart and not play our opponents game.

Dan

it's really all about power, isn't it. it has nothing to do with
rights, privileges, fairness or common sense.

Common sense is proposing a practical plan to rescind the
ordinance. So far all you've given us is useless hand-wringing Sure,
it's your right and privilege, but it's still useless.

You started this thread with a cry for help. Either show some
leadership by offering a goal-oriented plan, or supply specific
information so others can actually help you.

Dan

Morgans wrote:
I read it as only prohibiting it, if the craft was an unenclosed garage.
No?

No... it prohibits STORING aircraft other than in a totally enclosed
garage, but prohibits working on them anywhere on the property.

Richard

Morgans wrote:
I do not think that any city can regulate what you do behind CLOSED doors,
as long as it is not commercial in nature.

No, not so. A city can legally prohibit anything it wants. Search
warrant issues might make it hard for them to PROVE what you're doing,
but they can certainly prohibit it. Even if they don't have probable
cause to get a warrant to look in your garage and see what you're
doing, they could still cite you, and then at court you are asked "Are
you building a plane in your garage?"

If you answer "Yes" you get fined and if you answer "No" you are
risking a perjury charge. (In a criminal case, of course, you could
decline to answer - but code infraction cites are considered civil, and
you have no protection against self-incrimination)

Richard

Ernest Christley wrote:
And then bring up the issue of people
changing their own car's oil or airfilter, or even painting a lawn chair.

In several cities auto repair is prohibited unless done at a commercial
auto repair shop or wholly inside an enclosed garage. I had a
serpentine belt break once. I was able to pull into the parking lot of
a Kragen before it overheated, and I bought a new belt. I was
installing it in the parking lot when a cop car came past, and it cost
me a $56 ticket - and that was just installing a belt, with a spring
tightener - I didn't even need to take off a single bolt to replace it.

Richard

Morgans wrote:
Why should they give him a bit of support. They have not been targeted.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.


Pastor Martin Niemöller

rickalty wrote:
Dan Horton wrote:
Brian's airplane parking spot is hard against the
neighbor's bedroom window.

I guess it was easier for you to call him an idiot than it was for you
to click on the website and look at the actual photographs of the
houses, right?

There's a six foot wooden fence between the properties. From the
neighbours bedroom, the view is of her side of a wooden fence. "Maybe"
if she stood on a chair in her bedroom and looked out of the top of the
window she could see the top of the cowling of a plane parked on his
driveway.


To which I add that if you build or buy a house with a bedroom window
six feet from your neighbor's driveway you have little cause to
complain
about the view.

--

FF

On 10 Aug 2006 10:57:51 -0700, "rickalty"
wrote:

Morgans wrote:
I do not think that any city can regulate what you do behind CLOSED doors,
as long as it is not commercial in nature.


Of all things the State of Michigan has a law pertaining to.... of all
things... "The Missionary Position!" and I am not joking although
they were talking about removing that one.

And you thought regulations about working on a car were bad:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

No, not so. A city can legally prohibit anything it wants. Search
warrant issues might make it hard for them to PROVE what you're doing,
but they can certainly prohibit it. Even if they don't have probable
cause to get a warrant to look in your garage and see what you're
doing, they could still cite you, and then at court you are asked "Are
you building a plane in your garage?"

If you answer "Yes" you get fined and if you answer "No" you are
risking a perjury charge. (In a criminal case, of course, you could
decline to answer - but code infraction cites are considered civil, and
you have no protection against self-incrimination)

Richard
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com