Near miss from space junk.

Really?? But you gotta be clear of cloud, surely!!!

Yes, you must be clear of cloud. Depending on the airspace, you must be
certain distances away. However, in the US you do not need ground
contact. You can fly VFR above a solid overcast.

It may not be too bright to do so, depending on circumstances. However,
it is legal, and often not a dumb thing to do.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Mxsmanic wrote:


We are talking about flying VFR then entering cloud, right??? Charts
are no good if you can't see where you're going!

They are if you have instruments telling you where you are.

if you are entering IMC while VFR, knowing where you are will be
the least of your problem: you'll be dead before it matters one
way or the other.

--Sylvain

On Apr 3, 2:53 pm, Jose wrote:
Really?? But you gotta be clear of cloud, surely!!!

Yes, you must be clear of cloud. Depending on the airspace, you must be
certain distances away. However, in the US you do not need ground
contact. You can fly VFR above a solid overcast.

It may not be too bright to do so, depending on circumstances. However,
it is legal, and often not a dumb thing to do.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Makes me laugh, just a little.. People here have been telling me how
dangerous it is to fly without accurate fuel gauges coz you might have
a fuel leak or something like that and here you guys are now telling
me you can fly above a solid overcast.. What happens if you have an
engine failure?? Or get to your destination and you can't get down??
I also wouldn't think you could navigate by using your map if you
can't see the surface, so that means using VOR or GPS or something,
which I was under the impression are supposed to be secondary to your
map reading! But what do I know... :-)

On Apr 3, 2:56 pm, Sylvain wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
We are talking about flying VFR then entering cloud, right??? Charts
are no good if you can't see where you're going!

They are if you have instruments telling you where you are.

if you are entering IMC while VFR, knowing where you are will be
the least of your problem: you'll be dead before it matters one
way or the other.

--Sylvain

Isn't it something like 90 seconds life expectancy for a VFR pilot
entering cloud ???

And as far as I am concerned, if you are a VFR pilot, if you enter
IMC, it isn't suddenly IFR flying if you ain't got your IFR rating!

On 2 Apr, 23:41, DR wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
DR wrote :

chris wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:19 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
None of the small aircraft I have ever flown has had TCAS.. Are
you sure you got that right ???
By "often used," I meant "when present on small aircraft, this is
the type usually used," because it's cheaper. I don't think TCAS is
really present very much on small GA aircraft, but I don't have
actual figures. Since good avionics represent a substantial portion
of the total cost of an aircraft, it follows that one wouldn't see
advanced avionics that often on aircraft that are not otherwise very
expensive. Who would install $2 million of avionics on a $90,000
aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
I fear it's even worse than you think, at least in this country,
where private aircraft ownership is quite rare. Most light a/c are
either aero club owned, i.e. 172 / Cherokee, or commercial, like
Senecas and the like.. And on the whole, avionics tends to get
neglected. The vast majority of club a/c wouldn't have GPS, let
alone glass cockpits or TCAS. I have seen inside some commercial
operated light a/c like Senecas and Aztecs and you'd probably be
horrified at how basic they are. Just a couple of ADFs and VORs and
that's all they get. Maybe a DME thrown in for good measure...

And don't think they get maintained either. If the a/c came with IFR
gear and isn't being used for IFR, like at an aero club, when things
like DME and VOR break down they don't get fixed, they just get
placarded as inop. Same as fuel gauges. Of 9 planes at our club,
only 4 have working fuel gauges!! The rest are just placarded u/s.
And the only reason there are 4 planes that have gauges that work is
3 of them are brand new a/craft. The deal with fuel gauges is, we
know the fuel burn and we have a stick to dip the tank on preflight,
what do we need gauges for ???

Hi Chris,

Doesn't the MEL in part 91.509 say that fuel gauges are required...
Are you saying that the director CAA has deemed that working (not
necessarily accurate) fuel gauges are not required in your club -what
gives?

Flown lots of airliners where gauges may be U/S provided that the tanks
are dripped. This is not true of the current crop of airliners but you
coudl do it on older 73's for instance.

Hmm, that really surprises me (but then a lot of things do!). I guess
the issue of a fuel leak would be moot... On the other hand, not having
cockpit guages (or the PIC not checking them) would contribute to why
that Canadian(?) heavy ran out of A1 awhile ago?


That's right. It was not an allowable MEL item in that airplane. Not
with the fault that they had, anyway, but they misread the MEL and
took it and at the same time made some errors in calculating the
uplift. There are restirctions as to what you can or cannot do with US
fuel gauges, but I can't remember exactly what nor can I look it up
cuz my current drive must have them to fly. Though we have drips, I.ve
never ever used them on this airplane. Did lots of times on the 737
and a couple of others, though.

Bertie

On 2 Apr, 21:48, "chris" wrote:
On Apr 2, 4:43 pm, DR wrote:





chris wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:19 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
None of the small aircraft I have ever flown has had TCAS.. Are you
sure you got that right ???
By "often used," I meant "when present on small aircraft, this is the type
usually used," because it's cheaper. I don't think TCAS is really present
very much on small GA aircraft, but I don't have actual figures. Since good
avionics represent a substantial portion of the total cost of an aircraft, it
follows that one wouldn't see advanced avionics that often on aircraft that
are not otherwise very expensive. Who would install $2 million of avionics on
a $90,000 aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I fear it's even worse than you think, at least in this country, where
private aircraft ownership is quite rare. Most light a/c are either
aero club owned, i.e. 172 / Cherokee, or commercial, like Senecas and
the like.. And on the whole, avionics tends to get neglected. The
vast majority of club a/c wouldn't have GPS, let alone glass cockpits
or TCAS. I have seen inside some commercial operated light a/c like
Senecas and Aztecs and you'd probably be horrified at how basic they
are. Just a couple of ADFs and VORs and that's all they get. Maybe a
DME thrown in for good measure...

And don't think they get maintained either. If the a/c came with IFR
gear and isn't being used for IFR, like at an aero club, when things
like DME and VOR break down they don't get fixed, they just get
placarded as inop. Same as fuel gauges. Of 9 planes at our club,
only 4 have working fuel gauges!! The rest are just placarded u/s.
And the only reason there are 4 planes that have gauges that work is 3
of them are brand new a/craft. The deal with fuel gauges is, we know
the fuel burn and we have a stick to dip the tank on preflight, what
do we need gauges for ???

Hi Chris,

Doesn't the MEL in part 91.509 say that fuel gauges are required... Are
you saying that the director CAA has deemed that working (not
necessarily accurate) fuel gauges are not required in your club -what gives?

Cheers MC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They have fuel gauges.. they just don't work :-)- Hide quoted text -


Well, there's only one thing you can rely on for a fuel gauge to tell
you anyway. That it's in the panel. That's it. You must check at least
one other way that you have sufficient in any airplane except a
glider..


Bertie

On 2 Apr, 22:26, "chris" wrote:
On Apr 3, 5:56 am, Mxsmanic wrote:

Dylan Smith writes:
Why is it therefore deemed not only acceptable but entirely normal
that there is no in-flight fuel cross check in the form of a gauge that
at least gives a reasonable indication of how much fuel you have left?

Some pilots apparently love aviation so much that they're willing to die in
the cockpit.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

That's a rather negative way to look at it!!! In a few days I will be
flying for 2 1/2 hours on a cross country. I will have 4 1/2 hours
fuel. That doesn't sound reckless to me!!!

You won't be flying. you won't be on a cross coutry and you won't have
fuel, Jesus boi.

Oh and BTW, How do you know Jesus didn't **** like a bunny?

Bertie

On 3 Apr, 01:07, Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...

chris writes:

That's a rather negative way to look at it!!!

Better safe than sorry, I say.

In a few days I will be
flying for 2 1/2 hours on a cross country. I will have 4 1/2 hours
fuel. That doesn't sound reckless to me!!!

If you really have the fuel you think you have, and if you really consume it
as slowly as you think you do, perhaps not.

Say 32 litres and hour, plus or minus a few - ain't gonna make much
difference.

Or to rephrase, how can a 32l/hr plane consume say twice that?

We know you're not a real pilot -

He's not even an unreal pilot.


Bertie

What happens if you have an engine failure?? Or get
to your destination and you can't get down??

Those are good considerations that would enter into your go/no-go
decision. If you have an instrument rating and the aircraft is IFR
capable, and there isn't ice in the undercast, and you are on flight
following, it is probably not a big deal to get an IFR flight plan on
the fly and descend through the cloud deck in an emergency. Or even not
in an emergency - I have flown many flights VFR above a broken or
overcast layer and gotten a pop-up instrument approach at the end. (I
and the plane were instrument rated). Doing it this way allows a much
more direct routing, and that can cut the need for a fuel stop.

Engines themselves are pretty reliable (though nothing is perfect) -
most engine failures are due to fuel mismanagement. Be extra careful
with fuel if you are planning a trip over an undercast. Ditto for
extended overwater flight.

I also wouldn't think you could navigate by using your map if you
can't see the surface, so that means using VOR or GPS or something...

True. No navigation system does everything.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
says...
Dave Doe writes:

Why, or better question HOW could this happen?

A sudden change in the weather.

It happens here in NZ *regularly*.

I would *not* get trapped by bad weather ...

Famous last words.

Well I'm still here.

--
Duncan