French block airlift of British troops to Basra

Keith Willshaw wrote:
"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...


I doubt that the handful of British citizens in German
uniform were too happy to be sent home either, their
leader was hanged and they all received lengthy prison
sentences.

I don't think Joyce was their leader, and I seem to remember reading that
at least one other was shot...



Joyce played no part in the affair beyond his propaganda broadcasts,
their leader was John Amery son of Leo Amery a minister in Churchill's
wartime government.


And we're talking about British servicemen joining the SS here, not

Germans

going home to fight...



And the Soviets were are discussing were those who had
joined the German armed forces too.

Keith


Subjects of the Soviet Russian empire, who joined the armies
of an opposing power (which unfortunately was just as morally
corrupt, but more significantly turned out to be the loser)
in order to fight against the occupiers of their land and
demonstrated enemy of their people.

There is a world of difference between these people and
the handfull of British traitors. I do not know the motivations
of the Britishers, but am guessing that they must have been
ideological and not something as crass as financial or the
hatred of ones father.
--
Rostyk

"Vince Brannigan" wrote in message
...


Quite so, thus following the letter of the law, however those
loyalists who had sided with the British during the American revolution
tended to get rather less gentle treatment.

but who clearly were on much mroe solid legal ground


I am sure that was a great comfort to them as their land and
goods were seized and they were driven out of the country.

Keith

Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Vince Brannigan" wrote in message
...


Keith Willshaw wrote:


Even in Denmark, as pacific and easy going a nation as you
will ever find, Danish citizens who had joined the Waffen SS
were tried and many executed after the war. The last of
the surviving prisoners of Danmark Freikorp were released in the 1950's

I believe this is incorrect. The Freikorp was formed with the
permission of the wartime danish government.


The permission of a Nazi puppet regime is scarcely an excuse.



The law which the
volunteers were tried under was a postwar creation. The average sentence
was 2 years

http://www.dchf.dk/publications_dk/d...oulsen_mfl.pdf



Nothing in this article invalidates my point , having served in the
German armed forces was specifically made a punishable act.

Keith


You are avoiding all consideration of the relationship of Denmark and
Germany and its peoples in historical terms of occupier-occupied
(empire-subject) and motives of the people who enlisted in the Freikorp.
What or whom did those persons betray?
What, if any, moral turpitude were they guilty of, in their reasons
for joining?

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Vince Brannigan" wrote in message
...


Keith Willshaw wrote:


Even in Denmark, as pacific and easy going a nation as you
will ever find, Danish citizens who had joined the Waffen SS
were tried and many executed after the war. The last of
the surviving prisoners of Danmark Freikorp were released in the 1950's

I believe this is incorrect. The Freikorp was formed with the
permission of the wartime danish government.


The permission of a Nazi puppet regime is scarcely an excuse.



The law which the
volunteers were tried under was a postwar creation. The average sentence
was 2 years

http://www.dchf.dk/publications_dk/d...oulsen_mfl.pdf



Nothing in this article invalidates my point , having served in the
German armed forces was specifically made a punishable act.

Keith



You are avoiding all consideration of the relationship of Denmark and
Germany and its peoples in historical terms of occupier-occupied
(empire-subject) and motives of the people who enlisted in the Freikorp.
What or whom did those persons betray?

The people and government of Denmark

What, if any, moral turpitude were they guilty of, in their reasons
for joining?


Support of the Nazi regime which was occupying their
country and subjugating its people.

Keith

Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Vince Brannigan" wrote in message
...



Nothing in this article invalidates my point , having served in the
German armed forces was specifically made a punishable act.

After they lost. Its no trick to make an act a crime after it occurs.
it is of course unconstituional in the USA (ex post facto) etc.



Only if you accept the war time Danish Government as a
legitmate one operating of its own free will, I do not.

Had a portion of the US been invaded and subject to
a puppet regime I rather doubt that US citizens whoi
joined the SS would have escaped punishment based
on a plea that the aforementioned regime had sanctioned
their acts.

Keith


You are of course free to doubt as you will,
seeing as you are proposing a hypothetical.
However let's look at what happenned in the US Civil war.
Were the citizens of states occupied by the Southern
Confederacy who joined the Confederate army, later
prosecuted and punished by the winning Northern states,
after they won the war, for having joined the
Confederate army?
The war which is still refered to by some southerners
as 'The war of northern aggression'
--
Rostyk

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Vince Brannigan" wrote in message
...



Nothing in this article invalidates my point , having served in the
German armed forces was specifically made a punishable act.

After they lost. Its no trick to make an act a crime after it occurs.
it is of course unconstituional in the USA (ex post facto) etc.



Only if you accept the war time Danish Government as a
legitmate one operating of its own free will, I do not.

Had a portion of the US been invaded and subject to
a puppet regime I rather doubt that US citizens whoi
joined the SS would have escaped punishment based
on a plea that the aforementioned regime had sanctioned
their acts.

Keith


You are of course free to doubt as you will,
seeing as you are proposing a hypothetical.
However let's look at what happenned in the US Civil war.
Were the citizens of states occupied by the Southern
Confederacy who joined the Confederate army, later
prosecuted and punished by the winning Northern states,
after they won the war, for having joined the
Confederate army?

Nope and this is to the credit of those in the US Government.
Such an attitude is atypical, those who fight on the wrong side of
a civil war arent usually treated so well.

The war which is still refered to by some southerners
as 'The war of northern aggression'

You may wish to review what happened to those
who fought with the loyalists during the US war of independence.
They didnt do nearly as well as the rebels in 1865

You may also wish to review the treatment of those US
citizens suspected of having links with Al Qaeda or the
Taliban. John Walker Lindh got 20 years if I recall
correctly for offences commmitted outside the USA
and for belonging to an organisation which he joined before
it came into conflict with the USA.

Keith

"John Mullen" wrote in message
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"William Black" wrote in message
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"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
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Keith Willshaw wrote:

2) There were a handful of British citizens in German uniform
versus thousands of soviet subjects who chose to serve with
the Germans against the soviet Russian regime.

I don't actually have a problem with this, a traitor is a traitor is a
traitor.

Or does committing crimes with large numbers of other people make it
right?

There's no difference to me between a Don Cossack in a German uniform
and
a
British fascist in a German uniform, except that some of the Don
Cossacks
shot at British troops, including possibly some of my family.

Really? Where?

Some of the Cossacks were captured in German uniform behind Gold beach on
D-Day.

Several of my relatives went ashore with UK forces on D-Day.

--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"William Black" wrote in message
...

And we're talking about British servicemen joining the SS here, not
Germans
going home to fight...


And the Soviets were are discussing were those who had
joined the German armed forces too.

Exactly.

--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:

There is a world of difference between these people and
the handfull of British traitors. I do not know the motivations
of the Britishers, but am guessing that they must have been
ideological and not something as crass as financial or the
hatred of ones father.

I seem to remember that Vlasov and his men were actually part of the Red
Army when they changed sides.

That's treason, they got caught, they got shot.

So far I see nothing wrong here.

--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

snip

Quite so, thus following the letter of the law, however those
loyalists who had sided with the British during the American revolution
tended to get rather less gentle treatment.


Slight semantic problem; the loyalists(sic) _were_ British.
They didn't 'side with' the British, they were British, remained
British and refused to follow the rebellious smugglers, slave-owners,
land-owner and lawyer clique into an armed French-funded
insurrection. History _does_ record that they were treated badly
by the revolting colonists.

--

Brian