Bonanza crash caught on video

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:07:31 GMT, (Ron Lee)
wrote:


I disagree Dan. When he lifts off you can see the end of the runway
near. Obviously he saw that as well. The initial wing rocking may
have been just after leaving ground effect at lower than optimal
airspeed.

This all reminds me of that 182 on Youtube with the medical patient in
Africa that appears to be overweight.

I lost a friend, along with five of his relatives, when he tried to
depart Pullyaup, WA in an overweight Cherokee 6. His crash
description was exactly like the Youtube 182 and this Bo.

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:54:02 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:


I don't know about the Bo in particular, but on some airplanes the flaps
contribute more to drag than to lift.

On a Beech Sundowner, flaps will help climb at *exactly* 75 MPH IAS.
Any faster or slower and the performance drops off significantly and
you'd be better off without flaps.

The performance graph looks like an inverted, rounded Vee, and I've
verified it at altitude.

Jim Stewart wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Aug 31, 7:40 pm, Mike Granby wrote:
Another witness mentioned an engine sputter
Whatever the cause of a crash, there's always someone who hears the
engine splutter...

All aircraft engines sputter, that's just the nature of how they work.
They don't sound like BMV engines.


Bull. I can easily tell a well-running aircraft engine from one that
isn't running well.

I think he might have meant that a direct
drive unmuffled flat-four sounds rough
at idle compared to most cars. And I'd
agree.

My 182 idled quite nicely and sounded quite good at full-bore as well.
The operative definition here is number 3 under verb, and I have never
heard any decently tuned aircraft engine that makes "explosive popping
sounds." And to say that this is "just the nature of how they work" is
simply silly. And not all aircraft are unmuffled.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/sputter

Matt

Jay Honeck wrote:
I think he might have meant that a direct
drive unmuffled flat-four sounds rough
at idle compared to most cars. And I'd
agree.

It's that "unmuffled" (or partially muffled, at best) part that gives
it that characteristic quality.

Our friend has an airplane powered by an unmuffled Chevy V-8, and it
sounds just as sputtery at idle...


Funny cars and TF dragsters sputter. Most street cars don't even come
close! :-)

Matt

This was not a "high DA take off"

I will agree that the runway has a 6% slope and has higher terrain off each
end. It looked like he was taking off up slope.. the decision.. tailwind or
upslope take off. I'm sure weight and balance will be a critical part of the
accident investigation.

We were at 105F today.. our DA was 6200ft, aircraft were operating all day
with no problems on 3500ft and 4500ft long runways.
BT


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
http://fox40.trb.com/

In an amazing coincidence, a Sacramento TV station was at Cameron Park
airport filming background for a story about the crash of a plane that
had departed earlier in the day and caught a second crash on video. Go
to the web site and click on "Cameron Park Plane Crash" on the right
side.

It sure looks like the pilot was taking off from a high-density
altitude airport with no flaps, downwind.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote

Our friend has an airplane powered by an unmuffled Chevy V-8, and it
sounds just as sputtery at idle...

Most high HP V-8's do sound sputtery, due to a high lift cam with more than
usual valve open overlap.

Even then, V-8's with a stock cam often sound rough at idle, even with a
muffler, if idle is set relatively low. How about Harley's? They all sound
rough, with or without mufflers.
--
Jim in NC

"Robert M. Gary" wrote

No, all airplane engines sputter. Just park your BMV next to your
airplane and compare the sounds.

That is twice with that BVM stuff. The first time, I thought it was a typo,
but here it is again.

Is there a BVM car that I don't know about, or did you mean to say BMW?
--
Jim in NC

"john smith" wrote in message
...
30-second Rule.
If you are not airborne in 30-seconds, abort, something is wrong.
Sort it our on the ramp.

So you count to 30 while you take off, at the right speed? Watch the second
hand?

I think there has to be one of the other rules to follow that are a bit more
concrete and easy to recognize. Anything would be better than that!

Or was that an attempt at humor? If so, I couldn't tell.
--
Jim in NC

"Jay Honeck" wrote

Good fortune, I suppose. Similar videos always seem to end in smoke
and flame...

I was amazed by that, also. My first guess was that it plowed into a rather
sandy hill, and perhaps the sand helped to smother any chance of fire, but I
guess it is mostly luck, as you say.
--
Jim in NC

"Dale" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"karl gruber" wrote:


Yes, flaps need power and the 150 just doesn't have it. The 172 is a
little better, but the 182 really begins to show what flaps combined
with
power can do for takeoff.

Matt

Vx is without flaps in a 182.

Karl

On my '57 model 182 there are two Vx speeds...one for flaps 20 and one
for flaps up.

No. For your 182 there is only one Vx, and that is without flaps.

There is another speed used to climb over a close in obstacle, but it is
never labeled Vx

Karl