Electric Car? How about a Compressed Air Car?

In article ,
Gig 601XL Builder wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:

It seems the easiest would be to do what most states already do which is
record your odometer reading each year at registration renewal and have you
pay on a cost per mile basis.


half of this country's cars would go all year with the speedometer sensor
disconnected...


--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
|

"Eduardo K." wrote

half of this country's cars would go all year with the speedometer sensor
disconnected...

Of course, there are a few in the US that would do that; possibly more than
a few. g

Where you at, Eduardo?
--
Jim in NC

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:11:53 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Denny" wrote in message
...
40 miles a day is cutting it too close, people are going to wind up
stranded away from home... On weekends I average about 70 per day...

Given 40 mile batteries, a gas engine driving an onboard high
efficiency generator is what they will settle on for the commuter car,
allowing for the 70 mile days with minimal gas costs and a deep
recharge from the electric grid after arriving home...

Not sure of what you are saying, but the GM answer is a gas driven
generator, to kick in after the batteries are close to drained, so after 40

The generator would need to kick in a lot sooner than that, or you'd
see greatly reduced battery life.

miles, you run a small gas motor for the last 30, giving you gas mileage of
around 150 MPG. Of course, you still have to pay for the recharge on your
electric bill, or leave the engine running to recharge from the generator.

The Toyota Prius has the capability of running all electric in Europe.
There's a big button on the dash to put it in the all electric mode.
That makes them capable of over 100 MPG. Without it we seem to be
averaging a tad over 47. That option is not available in the states
so they could push the warranty up on the battery. In town and out in
the hills it's possible to get much better than the rated 50 MPG, BUT
to use the driving techniques required to get that kind of mileage
would make you the target of everyone else on the road:-))

As has been publicized, we don't have the grid capacity to support
much in the way of all electric cars. The same is true for Hydrogen.
It's either produced from fossil fuels with a lot of polluting
byproducts or takes a whale of a lot of electrical energy to produce
from water.

Alcohol is an interim solution with the hybrid being by far the most
economical and quickest to implement of the interim solutions.

As for grid capacity we are rapidly coming to the point of real time
usage monitoring with remote setback of heating and air conditioning.
Here with peak rates of about 10 cents per KWH we wouldn't see the
savings of those fortunate souls paying 38 cents during peak demand
out in the Republik of Kalafornia.

OTOH solar panels don't do us much good either.

Roger (K8RI)

In article ,
Morgans wrote:

Where you at, Eduardo?


Santiago, Chile.


--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
|

On 20 Nov 2007 19:35:03 GMT, James Robinson wrote:

(Scott) wrote:

James Robinson wrote:

My wife has a Prius which is a bit over a year old. I remember the
sticker EPA estimate was 50 mpg in town. I don't remember what it was
for highway but it was something like 5 % or so less.

The car actually does get 47point something on average around town.
Highway is a bit less and on the order of 5 or 6%. Surprisingly the
mileage computer in the car is just about dead on for integrated
mileage per tank. We always end up with in a couple tenths of what the
computer says.
That and the 120 to 175 mile trip every couple of weeks is small
compared to the rest of the tank so it has only about a MPG difference
if that on the overall mileage for a tank full.

However the computer does have the advantage in you can see what you
are doing and become conscious of getting good mileage. IF traffic
conditions let me drive to get the best mileage (they don't) from what
I've seen so far I could do better than 60 MPG easily, BUT I'd need
body guards and have to put armor plating on the Prius as driving for
mileage would make me one of the most unpopular drivers on the road.

Knowing we should accelerate easily and like flying, think ahead so we
don't have to brake hard or barely at all is one thing, but when you
can see it in action you quickly learn what to do when, IF you can.
Taking the off ramp from the expressway when traffic is light is an
example. If you have your foot completely off the gas prior to
entering the off ramp AND it's a long ramp you still need to use the
brakes coming up to the stop sign at the cross road. Letting the car
slow going up hills and accelerate going down also makes a big
difference.

My only complaint is the car is built like a beer can, or airplane if
you will :-)) It's also susceptible to winds. The effect of a 25 MPH
wind off the nose on the express way is immediately shown on the
computer and it's not trivial. OTOH if you can arrange for a tail
wind...:-))

Roger (K8RI)

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:27:27 -0800 (PST), Denny
wrote:


There is another factor that hasn't been mentioned. There is no
tax in the electricity rate to cover highway maintenance or
construction. If electric vehicles really do become that popular,
then something equivalent to the 50 cents a gallon now charged on
gasoline will have to be applied to the electricity used by electric
vehicles. That would add something like 2 to 4 cents a mile to the
electric vehicle cost, to keep the state and federal highway funds
solvent.

ehhh heh heh, I see in the future the public treated like farmers are
with fuels. Where they have to pay a road tax on every KWH they use
from the power company then file for a refund for the KWH use din the
home and not for charging their car.... Should be a hoot to watch...
They'll probably do it like they do here with my shop. Put in separate
meters with a minimum charge. With graduated rates it's probably be
cheaper to pay the taxes rather than put the house into a higher rate
due to usage.

OTOH the researchers are saying that probably won't be a problem as we
don't have enough grid capacity even in off peak hours to charge up
much of an electric fleet. Besides they figure that the overall
pollution from electric cars would be as bad or even worse than our
present fleet. The general consensus is the electric car is not the
way to go unless you live in the SW where a bank of solar panels can
do the charging.

The electricity has to come from some where and about 2/3rds to 3/4
comes from coal fired plants. These plants put huge amounts of CO2,
Mercury, and Sulphur into the air along with lots of particulate
matter. That means the so called clean electric car would probably
cause far more pollution than what's on the road now.

Both Hydrogen and Electric cars which are touted as being so clean
only move the source of pollution from the vehicle to the power
generation plant. Hydrogen takes even more energy to produce so it is
even less efficient.

In the end they are saying the small hybrids are the best interim
solution until alternative, clean energy sources become available. IOW
conservation is by far the best all around route both short and long
term.

Even with real time metering and load control if something like 20%of
our fleet went electric we'd almost have to double the size of the
electric grid. We'd end up like China who plans on adding one new
power generation plant _per_week_ for the next 10 years (or is it 20?)
Roger (K8RI)

Roger (K8RI) wrote:

The Toyota Prius has the capability of running all electric in Europe.
There's a big button on the dash to put it in the all electric mode.
That makes them capable of over 100 MPG. Without it we seem to be
averaging a tad over 47. That option is not available in the states
so they could push the warranty up on the battery. In town and out in
the hills it's possible to get much better than the rated 50 MPG, BUT
to use the driving techniques required to get that kind of mileage
would make you the target of everyone else on the road:-))


Not to be a smart ass but wouldn't putting it into all electrice mode make
the car go INFINITY mpg?

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote:

My wife has a Prius which is a bit over a year old. I remember the
sticker EPA estimate was 50 mpg in town. I don't remember what it was
for highway but it was something like 5 % or so less.

The old EPA numbers for the Prius were 60 city, 51 highway, with the
combined at 55 mpg.

The EPA has revised how they calculate the numbers for the 2008 model
year:

48 City, 45 highway, 46 combined.

The car actually does get 47point something on average around town.
Highway is a bit less and on the order of 5 or 6%.

So it appears that the new numbers are quite realistic in your case.

I have seen people quote average mileage numbers as low as 25 mpg in very
cold or hot climates, to over 55 mpg under ideal conditions. Some quote
consistent numbers of 35 mpg. So it seems that people can experience a
great spread of fuel economy with the car.

My only complaint is the car is built like a beer can, or airplane if
you will :-)) It's also susceptible to winds. The effect of a 25 MPH
wind off the nose on the express way is immediately shown on the
computer and it's not trivial. OTOH if you can arrange for a tail
wind...:-))

I read an analysis somewhere once where they showed that between an 8 mph
quartering wind and an 8 mph tail wind, the fuel economy would vary by
about 15 mpg.

The obvious answer to the problem, just like with flying, is to always
ensure there is a tail wind.

In article ,
James Robinson wrote:

I have seen people quote average mileage numbers as low as 25 mpg in very
cold or hot climates, to over 55 mpg under ideal conditions. Some quote
consistent numbers of 35 mpg. So it seems that people can experience a
great spread of fuel economy with the car.

Some things that adversely impact the per mile fuel economy of my hybrid:

1) ethanol in the fuel
2) New England winters (the engine runs much more often to stay warm)
3) short trips

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message

Not to be a smart ass but wouldn't putting it into all electrice mode make
the car go INFINITY mpg?


Division by zero is undefined!
/MX