The new Fork Tailed Doctor Killer

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:19 -0400, Roger
wrote:

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Well said.

To accomplish such polished competency requires regular use and
maintenance. I'd say a minimum of a cross country flight or more
weekly.

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:31:54 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Mar 19, 12:55*pm, The Visitor
wrote:

Night VFR doesn't exist many places because sometimes it is just
too dark.

Huh? Even if it is pitch black outside, and you see nothing whatsoever
beyond your plane, and you need to fly by reference to instruments in
order to stay upright, you can still be in VFR conditions.

Which is the very reason it's not allowed in some countries.
If the pilot has to rely only on the instruments then he/she is
essentially IMC . Whether the visibility is 5 or 100 miles as it might
as well be zero.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:19 -0400, Roger
wrote:

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Well said.

To accomplish such polished competency requires regular use and
maintenance. I'd say a minimum of a cross country flight or more
weekly.


The cross country is the easy part. It's working the pattern and the
airplane at and near the left side of the envelope in all configurations
that really completes the currency picture.
These airplanes require their pilots to simply go out and PRACTICE with
them perhaps more than they do.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:01:08 -0400, Roger
wrote:

I really think it's more of a stirring motion. They are about 3 to 3
1/2 feet behind the main spar. In turbulence they not only have the
side to side motion, but when the nose bumps up they drop, and when
the nose drops they feel pushed up. Both axies impart a motion counter
to what the eyes are seeing.

Isn't it a Foucault Oscillation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum
Animation of a Foucault pendulum, with the rotation rate greatly
exaggerated. The green trace shows the path of the pendulum bob
over the ground, and the blue trace shows the path in a frame of
reference rotating with the plane of the pendulum.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:01:08 -0400, Roger
wrote:

I really think it's more of a stirring motion. They are about 3 to 3
1/2 feet behind the main spar. In turbulence they not only have the
side to side motion, but when the nose bumps up they drop, and when
the nose drops they feel pushed up. Both axies impart a motion counter
to what the eyes are seeing.

Isn't it a Foucault Oscillation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum
Animation of a Foucault pendulum, with the rotation rate greatly
exaggerated. The green trace shows the path of the pendulum bob
over the ground, and the blue trace shows the path in a frame of
reference rotating with the plane of the pendulum.
I saw it more as a very subtle fishtailing Dutch Roll. You could at
least partially control it by resting your right foot on the right
rudder. This worked for us quite well actually.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:19 -0400, Roger
wrote:

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Well said.

To accomplish such polished competency requires regular use and
maintenance. I'd say a minimum of a cross country flight or more
weekly.

I think it depends on the pilot and the pilot's relationship with the
specific plane.


Here I agree with Dudley. Unless you are out in "weather" that is
beating the snot out of you the cross county , even in the clouds can
be relatively relaxed and even hand flown although that begins to
become tiresome after a couple of hours and that 's the time you are
going to need to be your sharpest. It's flying those new approaches
with the little unexpected things popping up that really build up the
polish.

The cross country is the easy part. It's working the pattern and the
airplane at and near the left side of the envelope in all configurations
that really completes the currency picture.
These airplanes require their pilots to simply go out and PRACTICE with
them perhaps more than they do.

PERHAPS? :-))

I think "purely personal opinion" based on 1300 hours in the Deb over
the last 12 years, these aren't exactly forgiving airplanes. They may
be pussycats (OK Streak excepted) compared to the big military
fighters, but they do not suffer lack of proficiency well.:-)) The
pilot really needs to know just about everything there is to know
about the specific plane when coming in to land be it an approach or
VFR pattern and they have to be flexible. Side step, circle to land,
missed and published holds, going missed on ATC's command, traffic
avoidance, doing things without hesitation or having to stop and
think. And this is assuming every thing works.:-)) Are we tilting a
little, do I have the leans, or is the AI dying? Man, what a time to
go partial panel.

Joining the ILS right at the outer marker when you have a tail wind of
20 or 30 knots (90 degrees to the localizer) really messes up your
nice turns.

Follow the guy ahead and expect the visual. Eh? I can't see the guy
ahead or the airport and I'm supposed to FOLLOW HIM? (Ben there,
done that ) Ahhhh... Approach, I can't see the twin ahead or the
airport. It's solid IMC up here. OK, maintain heading (what ever),
expect vectors to the visual on 09.

Circle left for the visual to 27. Say what? There's a whole string
of airliners departing 09. Oh! Then circle right for 09. I think
they do that just to see if you are paying attention.

And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On 2008-03-20, Edward A. Falk wrote:
I've been thinking about Bonanzas lately. I recently met someone
with an old 6-seat V-tail, and he claimed to go 170 kts at 11 gph.
Could he be telling the truth? That sounds pretty impressive and
a little incredible.

That does sound a little bit incredible - the real numbers for the S-35
that I flew was a hair over 13 gph for 165 ktas.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

On Mar 19, 10:19 pm, Roger wrote:

Is it really worth the added risk?

I did a lot of night VFR including long cross country flying and never
considered it much different than day VFR. Of course we don't have
mountains around here and I never considered day VFR lightly.

There are more than mountains to contend with here, day or night.

Fly south from here and you are over WV -- not much is flat there. If
you're east of south you're over some serious wilderness and real
mountains.

Fly east and you're over the Alleghenies which -- while not the
Rockies -- have plenty of traps for the reckless. (Departing on 14
from my home field I'd better make the turn to crosswind quick if I
want to avoid the 1200' ridge directly in my flight path. The night
IFR departure is N/A).

Fly north over the rather unforgiving urban sprawl of Pittsburgh.
Those unlit stretches below are either rivers or deep draws.

Fly west and you're above the Pittsburgh Plateau -- a 75 mile wide
series of 150-200' hills with houses and farms and roads, and power
and gas lines scattered over the whole conglomeration.

I don't fly at night lightly here. While I've flown my share of night
XC, I'm aware that there is an added risk factor SEL. In most cases
the risk is not justified.


Dan Mc

On Mar 19, 10:38 pm, Frank Stutzman
wrote:

I usually figure my crusty A model with the weenie E-225 will do about 135
knots on a bit more than 9 GPH. I did have a terrific flight a few weeks
ago where the GPS was saying 185 knots and the the JPI was saying 8.5 GPH.
Gotta love cold, strong tailwinds ;-)


The JPI is the greatest thing since -- GPS!

Running LOP with GAMinjectors, I can get a lightly-loaded A36 to fly
130 KIAS on 10 gph.

140 KIAS requires 11.6

The Straight 35 (1947) can fly 120 KIAS on 7 gph (E-185 with electric
prop)

Groundspeeds -- well.. let's just say double digits has not been
uncommon westbound lately.


Dan Mc

On Mar 19, 10:45 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I'll tell you. A night takeoff out of Bader Field in Atlantic City NJ
out over the ocean on a moonless night can get "interesting: as well.
:-)

--
Dudley Henriques


Here's a sad NTSB that validates the danger of a moonless night
transition from land to ocean:

Accident occurred Friday, March 15, 2002 in Ocean City, MD
Aircraft: Cessna 172P, registration: N96811
Injuries: 4 Fatal.

The airplane was over water, making a night VFR approach to a coastal
airport. Witnesses observed it suddenly transition from horizontal
flight, to a vertical descent into the ocean. According to a witness
flying in the area at the time, the accident airplane went over a
"black hole," and he saw "strobe over strobe" before it disappeared.
The witness also noted that disorientation around the airport at night
was common because of the ocean. The accident occurred on a clear,
dark night, with no illumination from the moon. The pilot was not
instrument-rated, but had received instrument training under a hood in
VFR conditions.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's spatial disorientation, which resulted in his subsequent
loss of control of the airplane. A factor was the dark night, over
water visual conditions.

Last time I was at OXB, I took some friends for a night flight along
the coast. On takeoff from 14 by 200' AGL I was on solid instruments
until I could get turned back towards the shore. Even though I was
qualified and current, it required some disciple to maintain altitude
and heading.

Night VFR -- especially moonless nights in remote areas -- should be
considered IFR flying, if not legally, than practically.


Dan Mc