Help Our UAL Friends

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ujDYe.70306$7f5.52421@okepread01...


Because the was the agreement when the employee was hired. If I hired
you
and said I would pay you $10.00/hr and then handed you your first week
paycheck and only paid you $9.00/hr how would you feel about that?

I'd feel like telling them to live up to their agreements or I'd take a
walk.

Since only real estate transactions need be in writing, and even dinky
jobs
often have written stipulations (not a formal contract, but a written
statement), in many states that would be a violation of state law. In
any
case, why would someone be willing to work for such folks?


And taking a walk is all good and fine if you find out they screwed you
over after a week. But after 20 years just going to work for the
competition isn't going to help you much.

If it takes you 20 years to figure that out, then you're pretty much
helpless.


--

Matt, Are you just being an asshole for the fun of it. The post that I
posted my original reply to was one that asked the question of why the
carrier had an obligation to pay the pension. I compared it to the $10 $9
example.

If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they promise me
a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.

The pension plan must specify when you become vested. Only when vested
are you guaranteed a pension.

Typically, what you will see today is vesting at 5 or 10 years, but may
not collect until you are 65 if you leave before retirement. There was a
time when one had to work until 65 to collect a pension. No early
retirement or vesting at all.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message ...

If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they
promise me a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.

"sfb" wrote in message news:nZVYe.862$SG3.675@trnddc07...
The pension plan must specify when you become vested. Only when vested are
you guaranteed a pension.

Typically, what you will see today is vesting at 5 or 10 years, but may
not collect until you are 65 if you leave before retirement. There was a
time when one had to work until 65 to collect a pension. No early
retirement or vesting at all.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message ...

If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they promise
me a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.




You do realize that has nothing to do with what I wrote don't you?

sfb wrote:
The pension plan must specify when you become vested. Only when vested
are you guaranteed a pension.

If the company goes into Chapter 11, your pension can go bye-bye. They can also
rewrite the terms to some extent, even if the company doesn't declare bankruptcy.

Typically, what you will see today is vesting at 5 or 10 years, but may
not collect until you are 65 if you leave before retirement.

Under Federal law, you are partially vested at 2 years and fully vested at 5 years.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ayVYe.76341$7f5.16514@okepread01...


And taking a walk is all good and fine if you find out they screwed you
over after a week. But after 20 years just going to work for the
competition isn't going to help you much.

If it takes you 20 years to figure that out, then you're pretty much
helpless.


--

Matt, Are you just being an asshole for the fun of it. The post that I
posted my original reply to was one that asked the question of why the
carrier had an obligation to pay the pension.

Contractual obligation.

I compared it to the $10 $9 example.

An entirely different context. Under the scenario you painted in this
instance, the proper move was to complain, then quit if there was no
satisfaction.

Now let me ask you something: Are you being childish for a reason? Did you
get burned by being naive and now are unwilling to face up like an adult?

So far, the points I've seen from so many are more what I'd expect from
adolesants. If that means I'm an asshole, the maybe I am, but there are some
real spoiled brats running loose.


If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they promise
me a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.

Get a book on contract law, and lookup "impossibility of performance".

If you'd rather a candyass whose shoulder you can cry on after messing up
your worklife/career for 20 years, then that's not me. I treat people in
their 40's like adults, not kids, and I expect that by the time Daddy kicks
them out of the nest they can handle their lives and careers.

Hey, it's a shame your employer "died". but when you started with them YOU
handed them the Vaseline jar.

Just make damn sure your own kids don't make the same mistakes. Better yet,
get them a copy of Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and make them read it.
It's got some ephemeral tales, but the gist is dead on.

Sorry if that comes off like an "asshole", but I've already raised three
kids that were on their way to financial independence since their teens and
I'm not up for raising any more kids, especially ones that are damn near my
own age.




--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Matt you are just talking out of your ass now. You jumped into a thread you
obviously hadn't read. Just so you know here was the original message I
responded to.


Montblack wrote:

The company has an obligation to provide benefits and has to fund
the plan to provide for those benefits.

Agreed - however on the back end, not the front end based on outmoded
projections.

Why does the company have an *obligation* to provide benefits?

--
John T


My response was based on what looked like John T's belief that there was no
obligation to provide benefits promised.

Where you came up with your version of the thread I have not a clue but as
far as I'm concerned it ends now.




"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ayVYe.76341$7f5.16514@okepread01...


And taking a walk is all good and fine if you find out they screwed you
over after a week. But after 20 years just going to work for the
competition isn't going to help you much.

If it takes you 20 years to figure that out, then you're pretty much
helpless.


--

Matt, Are you just being an asshole for the fun of it. The post that I
posted my original reply to was one that asked the question of why the
carrier had an obligation to pay the pension.

Contractual obligation.

I compared it to the $10 $9 example.

An entirely different context. Under the scenario you painted in this
instance, the proper move was to complain, then quit if there was no
satisfaction.

Now let me ask you something: Are you being childish for a reason? Did you
get burned by being naive and now are unwilling to face up like an adult?

So far, the points I've seen from so many are more what I'd expect from
adolesants. If that means I'm an asshole, the maybe I am, but there are
some real spoiled brats running loose.


If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they promise
me a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.

Get a book on contract law, and lookup "impossibility of performance".

If you'd rather a candyass whose shoulder you can cry on after messing up
your worklife/career for 20 years, then that's not me. I treat people in
their 40's like adults, not kids, and I expect that by the time Daddy
kicks them out of the nest they can handle their lives and careers.

Hey, it's a shame your employer "died". but when you started with them YOU
handed them the Vaseline jar.

Just make damn sure your own kids don't make the same mistakes. Better
yet, get them a copy of Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and make them read
it. It's got some ephemeral tales, but the gist is dead on.

Sorry if that comes off like an "asshole", but I've already raised three
kids that were on their way to financial independence since their teens
and I'm not up for raising any more kids, especially ones that are damn
near my own age.




--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ayVYe.76341$7f5.16514@okepread01...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ujDYe.70306$7f5.52421@okepread01...


Because the was the agreement when the employee was hired. If I hired
you
and said I would pay you $10.00/hr and then handed you your first week
paycheck and only paid you $9.00/hr how would you feel about that?

I'd feel like telling them to live up to their agreements or I'd take a
walk.

Since only real estate transactions need be in writing, and even dinky
jobs
often have written stipulations (not a formal contract, but a written
statement), in many states that would be a violation of state law. In
any
case, why would someone be willing to work for such folks?


And taking a walk is all good and fine if you find out they screwed you
over after a week. But after 20 years just going to work for the
competition isn't going to help you much.

If it takes you 20 years to figure that out, then you're pretty much
helpless.


--

Matt, Are you just being an asshole for the fun of it. The post that I
posted my original reply to was one that asked the question of why the
carrier had an obligation to pay the pension. I compared it to the $10 $9
example.

If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they promise
me a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.
Remember no one will take care of your money you have to do it yourself.

Matt Barrow ) wrote:
:
: Unions are there to protect the working class
:
: Like teachers?
:
:

American teachers may become the next occupational "endangered species":


http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/050826_vfl.htm
VDARE.com: 08/26/05 - View From Lodi, CA:
Look Out Teachers; The H-1B Visa Gang Wants Your Job

"View From Lodi, CA: Look Out Teachers; The H-1B Visa Gang Wants Your Job
By Joe Guzzardi

A recent item in the Las Vegas Review-Journal should raise eyebrows
among my teaching colleagues and parents with school age children.

In his warm and fuzzy story titled Teachers Arrive From Philippines,
Antonio Planas reported that 51 Filipino teachers recruited in
February to work for the Clark County School District have completed
their 7,000-mile journey. They are headed directly to the classroom.
[August 2, 2005]

Clark County is, according to the story, short about 400 teachers
district wide.

But tough, unasked questions remain.

Will the new instructors be able to make the transition from teaching
in rural communities half way around the world--one described her
village as "rice and coconut farmers"--to teaching in the neon lights
of urban Las Vegas?

[snip]

The Filipino teachers are legally in the U.S. on non-immigrant H-1B
visas. And that fact begs a bigger question: did Clark County exhaust
every opportunity to hire an American before traveling to the other
side of the globe?

Rob Sanchez, who tracks non-immigrant visa issues and is the Webmaster
for the invaluable www.zazona.com, says school districts fail to look
at unemployed local professionals. Many laid off software engineers,
for example, have gone back to school to get education degrees.

Wrote Sanchez in his August 3rd newsletter:

"School districts all over the United States are actively recruiting
foreign teachers for our schools. In this case, Filipino math and
science teachers on H-1B visas have just arrived in Nevada.

I have talked to many engineers and programmers that have been unable
to get teaching jobs in math and science, despite the fact that they
went back to school to get education degrees. Despite the growing
number of desperate unemployed high-tech workers states like Nevada
still claim there is a shortage of these types of teachers. This is
just another cruel insult to the growing number of highly educated
professionals that can't find meaningful work."

And when Sanchez says that recruitment of foreign teachers is going on
nationwide, he isn't kidding.

o In 2003, Arizona educators traveled to New Delhi for teachers
even though the local Scottsdale Unified School District cut 175
jobs during the same period. [Teachers Recruited from India, Pat
Kossan, Arizona Republic, March 22, 2003]

o In June 2004, the New York Department of Education, crying
"shortage," added 200 additional teachers from Jamaica to its staff.
The state offered two additional bonuses: free legal advice so that
they could convert their visas into permanent residency status and
free temporary housing.

o In September 2001, Cleveland hired 50 math and special
education teachers from India. This year 500 pink slips are being sent
out in what the Cleveland Plain-Dealer describes as

"The first wave in what will be deep staff cuts in
the school district."

[Nearly 500 Teachers Will Be Cut, Janet Okoben and Ebony Reed,
April 23, 2005]

At the beginning of my column I warned that teachers should be leery
of the trend to hire H-1Bs.

Conservative estimates put the number of teachers with non-immigrant
visas at about 15,000...and growing.

If you wonder why the attraction to H-1Bs is so strong, read the 2004
National Education Association report Trends in Foreign Teacher
Recruitment.

From the NEA report:

"...Some foreign teachers receive lower pay than comparable teachers
in their schools."

And:

"...Some school districts pay their nonimmigrant employees as new
teachers, regardless of their experience and qualifications..."



--Jerry Leslie
Note: is invalid for email

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:38:24 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Jon A" wrote in message
.. .

Another republican!


Are you using "republican" as a synonym of "informed"? You seem to be.

No, uninformed about reality would be a better descriptor than what
you use. You guys still don't (won't) get it, will you?

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:36:58 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Jon A" wrote in message
.. .

Ones that would be allowed to proliferate if no unions were present.
How about 14 hour work days with no breaks for starters?


Are you saying that without unions we'd have 14 hour work days with no
breaks? Even if that was so, how would it be unfair?



I really don't believe that someone who is as learned as you appear to be
would
ask that question.


How else can I know what you believe are unfair management practices?



Check a history book if you want to know more.


Do you know of any history books that agree with your position?



Outrageous! You don't even deserve the courtesy of this reply!