Busted TFR, what to expect?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ynPdg.992508$xm3.784486@attbi_s21...
You are fooling yourself if you think that three minutes is sufficient
time for a preflight inspection.

Well, maybe it's my familiarity with the bird.

No, it's not. I've owned my airplane for 12 years. Three minutes is still
insufficient.

Frankly, every post you make you add stuff to your description of your
preflight. I have no idea how you manage to do all that stuff in three
minutes. You are either recklessly rushing through everything, or you have
a completely distorted sense of time.

Next time you do a preflight, get someone to actually time you, and do the
preflight in a careful, relaxed, methodical manner. If you are really doing
everything you claim to be doing, there's no way it takes three minutes.

Three minutes is an incredibly short period of time. I'm a fast typist, and
it took at least three minutes to compose this post.

Pete

No, it's not. I've owned my airplane for 12 years. Three minutes is
still insufficient.

Frankly, every post you make you add stuff to your description of your
preflight. I have no idea how you manage to do all that stuff in three
minutes. You are either recklessly rushing through everything, or you
have a completely distorted sense of time.

That's possible, I suppose. Time spent flying (and preflighting) is NOT
deducted from your lifespan, so it pays to take your time... ;-)

I still say you're suffering from time elongation during preflight. Unless
I find something wrong or that needs adjustment, or lubrication (the yokes,
for example), or cleaning (the windshield -- but we try to do that AFTER
flight), I can't imagine taking 15 minutes on a preflight inspection. Not
on a fixed gear, single engine plane, anyway.

How long does your pre-takeoff checklist take you? Perhaps we're
commingling different parts of the lists, and counting them differently as a
result? (For example, Bob Noel checks his electric fuel pump during
pre-flight, which adds some time. We check the pump at engine start, so
we're not counting that particular check as part of our pre-flight
inspection...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ynPdg.992508$xm3.784486@attbi_s21...

You are fooling yourself if you think that three minutes is sufficient
time for a preflight inspection.

Well, maybe it's my familiarity with the bird.


No, it's not. I've owned my airplane for 12 years. Three minutes is still
insufficient.

Frankly, every post you make you add stuff to your description of your
preflight. I have no idea how you manage to do all that stuff in three
minutes. You are either recklessly rushing through everything, or you have
a completely distorted sense of time.

Next time you do a preflight, get someone to actually time you, and do the
preflight in a careful, relaxed, methodical manner. If you are really doing
everything you claim to be doing, there's no way it takes three minutes.

Three minutes is an incredibly short period of time. I'm a fast typist, and
it took at least three minutes to compose this post.

I don't know about that. I counted roughly 120 words in your post. If
that took three minutes, then you are typing at 40 words per minute.
That isn't a fast typist by any means. I type 50+ and consider myself
slow. Wife and daughters type well over 100. That is fast.

I'm with Jay on this one. I could preflight my Skylane in no much more
than three minutes. I'd probably say 5 just to be on the safe side, but
it just doesn't take that long to walk around the airplane and pull, tug
and view the essential items.

Matt

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"The Visitor" wrote in message
...
Peter Duniho wrote:
Your strobes are required even in daytime.

So a Cub with no electrical system, can't fly day vfr?

No, and that's not what I said. Your reading comprehension is pitiful.

I wrote "YOUR strobes are required even in daytime". Jay's airplane is
equipped with strobes, and no rotating beacon (so they are his
anti-collision lights). As such, they are required to be lit during all
operations, including daytime.

Pete

Newer twin-Cessnas have two switches, one labeled "anti-coll" that turns on
the rotating beacon and one labeled "strobes" that .turns on the stobe
lights. The strobes do not have to be turned on during day-vfr.

I know you are referring to Jay's airplane not having a beacon must operate
the strobes but others not reading the full thread (as I started out to do)
may think that strobes are always required to be on if you have them.

Just a nit

Allen

"Allen" wrote in message
om...
Newer twin-Cessnas have two switches, one labeled "anti-coll" that turns
on
the rotating beacon and one labeled "strobes" that .turns on the stobe
lights. The strobes do not have to be turned on during day-vfr.

I've flown older Cessnas with the same configuration. There are LOTS of
airplanes with both strobes and a rotating beacon, of all sorts of ages.
So? The rule says that the anti-collision lights need to be on. If your
strobes aren't your anti-collision lights, then obviously they aren't
addressed by that regulation.

This is basic stuff, should be covered in anyone's primary training. Blame
your instructor if you're confused by this thread.

I know you are referring to Jay's airplane not having a beacon must
operate
the strobes but others not reading the full thread (as I started out to
do)
may think that strobes are always required to be on if you have them.

They would only think that if they didn't bother to know and understand the
regulations. I never wrote that strobes are always required to be on, and
no one should infer that from my post. I was very specific about what I
wrote.

Just a nit

It's not a nit. It's just irrelevant. A "nit" would address some failure
in what I wrote. Everything I wrote was true and correct. It was intended
to address a very specific point, in a very specific context. Anyone trying
to extrapolate that point to some unrelated context is making a mistake.

Pete

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:QLXdg.5074$1i1.1849@attbi_s72...
That's possible, I suppose. Time spent flying (and preflighting) is NOT
deducted from your lifespan, so it pays to take your time... ;-)

Preflighting *is* part of flying, as you say. I know for a fact it takes me
15 minutes, but I also know for a fact that it doesn't feel like 15 minutes
because time flies when you're having fun. I enjoy the inspection, and the
minutes just pass by like water.

I still say you're suffering from time elongation during preflight.

I suffer from the same time distortion you do. It doesn't seem like 15
minutes. But I've checked the clock on several occasions. I know how long
it actually takes.

[...]
How long does your pre-takeoff checklist take you? Perhaps we're
commingling different parts of the lists, and counting them differently as
a result?

I do a normal run-up. Electric fuel pump is my primer, and so operation is
checked during engine start, like for your airplane. In any case, even on a
172, with much simpler systems than on my own airplane, my preflight is
generally over 10 minutes, and that's an airplane I can't even get into the
engine compartment with.

I don't know what else you might be considering...my pre-takeoff checks are
pretty typical as far as I know, except for the flight control check (only
the ailerons are visible from the cockpit, so I do check the flight controls
during the walkaround). If anything, I would guess my pre-takeoff checks
are fewer than others' for that reason.

Pete

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
I don't know about that. I counted roughly 120 words in your post. If
that took three minutes, then you are typing at 40 words per minute.

Most of the time spent composing a post isn't the typing. It's the figuring
out what to say, proof-reading, etc. My point about being a fast typist was
just to make sure it's understood that typing isn't the bottleneck in my
case, artificially increasing the time taken to post.

[...]
I'm with Jay on this one. I could preflight my Skylane in no much more
than three minutes. I'd probably say 5 just to be on the safe side, but
it just doesn't take that long to walk around the airplane and pull, tug
and view the essential items.

You aren't doing a sufficient preflight either.

I easily recognize that there are pilots doing three minute preflights.
That doesn't mean those preflights are effective. Try that in one of the
Embry-Riddle-style preflight competitions and you'd be laughed off the ramp.

Pete

"Jay Honeck" writes:
How long does your pre-takeoff checklist take you? Perhaps we're
commingling different parts of the lists, and counting them differently as a
result? (For example, Bob Noel checks his electric fuel pump during
pre-flight, which adds some time. We check the pump at engine start, so
we're not counting that particular check as part of our pre-flight
inspection...)

Another data point -- I am not nearly as experienced as you are, but
going through every item on the Citabria checklist takes me 20-30
minutes.

I know this 'cause I have to make sure I have this done before my
instructor shows up. :-)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

Chris Colohan wrote:
"Jay Honeck" writes:

How long does your pre-takeoff checklist take you? Perhaps we're
commingling different parts of the lists, and counting them differently as a
result? (For example, Bob Noel checks his electric fuel pump during
pre-flight, which adds some time. We check the pump at engine start, so
we're not counting that particular check as part of our pre-flight
inspection...)


Another data point -- I am not nearly as experienced as you are, but
going through every item on the Citabria checklist takes me 20-30
minutes.

Wow, you've got to get out of 1st gear. :-)

I could preflight my 182, wash the windshield, change the oil and check
the tire pressures in 10 minutes time. I didn't realize a Citabria was
so complex. Does the preflight require ultrasonic inspection of the
structure or some such? :-)


Matt

The TFR's I don't like are the pop up Fire Fighting Ones...

Yea, Call and get a weather briefer check for TFR's along the route anf
there are "NO" TFR's along the route!!! you are on flight following center
says NXXXXX TFR 5 miles straight ahead off XXX radial of XXX VOR present
heading will put you in the middle of Said TFR Suggest heading of XXX Until
advised. You call up flight watch on 122.0 and 1 hour prior the TFR was
issued you called 2.5 hours ago.

I make it a habit when flying in fire prone areas of the US to check about
every hour or two for any pop up TFR's and any other notams along the route
and also give a pirep on the current conditions.


"bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Seems I busted a VIP TFR Monday near Sacramento (VP Cheney was in town
raising money for a couple of congressmen). On landing at my
destination I was asked by the airport manager to call an ATC number,
who got my info and said they would forward it to the local FSDO as a
"pilot deviation". I'm not disputing that I indeed was ignorant of the
TFR and violated it.

So what can I expect? I've already figured out that the Secret Service
isn't going to arrest me. My biggest concern is what it will do to my
insurance costs when I renew next year. Should I bother filing the
NASA ASRS form? Since I'm a PP-ASEL and flying is a hobby, I don't
otherwise care a lot if my license is suspended for a time or I end up
with a record.