Beware travelers with bratty kids

John Theune wrote:
B A R R Y wrote:


"The father said his family would never fly AirTran again."

Makes me want to fly AirTran.



Same here!

My wife (a 2nd grade teacher) and I were wondering how many read that
article and said the same. I don't feel sorry for parents who can't
control a kid and seem to feel that everyone else should have to put
up with it.

Imagine how that kid might have acted for the entire flight? G

The msnbc site that I read the story on had a poll and 68% of the
respondents agreed with AirTran

Reread my earlier post on the 4 year old next to my wife and me from NCY
to Athens, Greece. It was not a fun flight.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

("Ross" wrote)
Reread my earlier post on the 4 year old next to my wife and me from NCY
to Athens, Greece. It was not a fun flight.


A friend of ours is an anesthesiologist. He/she took a long, long, long
flight a number of years ago. He/she had FA's commenting on how well behaved
their toddler was - the entire flight.

Said toddler was "clean" for the return trip. The parents used some
pre-flight sleep deprivation techniques on the little guy, for the flight
home. He slept most of that trip and was an "angel" the rest of the time,
blissfully unaware that the 'special' milk bottle was waiting for him
....just in case.

Bad parents. Bad. g


Montblack

In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:

Jim, I haven't looked up the part 121 rules since I left the airlines, but
as I recall, the "duty time" is defined as flight time. No limit on how
long a crewmember can sit idling on the ground. Last I looked it was 8
hours a 24 hour day, 40 hours in a 7 day week, 100 hours in any 30 day
period ("month") and 1000 hours in a calendar year. Perhaps that has
changed.

As I was recently told, the crew clock doesn't start until the first
engine is started.

In article ,
"Montblack" wrote:

Said toddler was "clean" for the return trip. The parents used some
pre-flight sleep deprivation techniques on the little guy, for the flight
home. He slept most of that trip and was an "angel" the rest of the time,
blissfully unaware that the 'special' milk bottle was waiting for him
...just in case.
Bad parents. Bad. g

Remember thescene from the Wizard of Oz where Dorothy falls asleep after
running through the field? It was a field of poppys.

Homebrew.... purchase a bag of poppy seeds from the local store.
Boil the seeds. Make poppy seed struedel with the poppy seeds. Save the
water the seeds were boiled in. When the kid gets cranky, give them a
cup of the brew. They will sleep like a baby!

Duty time is what is left after mandatory rest. Further,
there are limits on flight hours and some exceptions for
number of crew in the cockpit and weather delays.

§ 121.471 Flight time limitations and rest requirements:
All flight crewmembers.
(a) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may
schedule any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may
accept an assignment for flight time in scheduled air
transportation or in other commercial flying if that
crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will
exceed-

(1) 1,000 hours in any calendar year;

(2) 100 hours in any calendar month;

(3) 30 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

(4) 8 hours between required rest periods.

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no
certificate holder conducting domestic operations may
schedule a flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may
accept an assignment for flight time during the 24
consecutive hours preceding the scheduled completion of any
flight segment without a scheduled rest period during that
24 hours of at least the following:

(1) 9 consecutive hours of rest for less than 8 hours of
scheduled flight time.

(2) 10 consecutive hours of rest for 8 or more but less than
9 hours of scheduled flight time.

(3) 11 consecutive hours of rest for 9 or more hours of
scheduled flight time.

(c) A certificate holder may schedule a flight crewmember
for less than the rest required in paragraph (b) of this
section or may reduce a scheduled rest under the following
conditions:

(1) A rest required under paragraph (b)(1) of this section
may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 8 hours if
the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 10
hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the
commencement of the reduced rest period.

(2) A rest required under paragraph (b)(2) of this section
may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 8 hours if
the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 11
hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the
commencement of the reduced rest period.

(3) A rest required under paragraph (b)(3) of this section
may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 9 hours if
the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 12
hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the
commencement of the reduced rest period.

(4) No certificate holder may assign, nor may any flight
crewmember perform any flight time with the certificate
holder unless the flight crewmember has had at least the
minimum rest required under this paragraph.

(d) Each certificate holder conducting domestic operations
shall relieve each flight crewmember engaged in scheduled
air transportation from all further duty for at least 24
consecutive hours during any 7 consecutive days.

(e) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may
assign any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may
accept assignment to any duty with the air carrier during
any required rest period.

(f) Time spent in transportation, not local in character,
that a certificate holder requires of a flight crewmember
and provides to transport the crewmember to an airport at
which he is to serve on a flight as a crewmember, or from an
airport at which he was relieved from duty to return to his
home station, is not considered part of a rest period.

(g) A flight crewmember is not considered to be scheduled
for flight time in excess of flight time limitations if the
flights to which he is assigned are scheduled and normally
terminate within the limitations, but due to circumstances
beyond the control of the certificate holder (such as
adverse weather conditions), are not at the time of
departure expected to reach their destination within the
scheduled time.

[Doc. No. 23634, 50 FR 29319, July 18, 1985, as amended by
Amdt. 121-253, 61 FR 2612, Jan. 26

"john smith" wrote in message
...
| In article ,
| "RST Engineering" wrote:
|
| Jim, I haven't looked up the part 121 rules since I left
the airlines, but
| as I recall, the "duty time" is defined as flight time.
No limit on how
| long a crewmember can sit idling on the ground. Last I
looked it was 8
| hours a 24 hour day, 40 hours in a 7 day week, 100 hours
in any 30 day
| period ("month") and 1000 hours in a calendar year.
Perhaps that has
| changed.
|
| As I was recently told, the crew clock doesn't start until
the first
| engine is started.

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:50:27 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:


"The father said his family would never fly AirTran again."

Makes me want to fly AirTran.




Same here!

My wife (a 2nd grade teacher) and I were wondering how many read that
article and said the same. I don't feel sorry for parents who can't
control a kid and seem to feel that everyone else should have to put up
with it.

Imagine how that kid might have acted for the entire flight? G

Check the trailers. In addition to the68% that sided with the airline,
there are OVER 700 PAGES of comments with only a rare one agreeing
with the parents.

I particularly liked the one from the woman who said she had to make
an emergency trip so stopped at the airport pharmacy, bought a bottle
of Benadril (sp?) and gave her kid a swig before getting on the plane.
Kid was nice and peaceful for the flight. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote

I particularly liked the one from the woman who said she had to make
an emergency trip so stopped at the airport pharmacy, bought a bottle
of Benadril (sp?) and gave her kid a swig before getting on the plane.
Kid was nice and peaceful for the flight. :-))

I know doctors who recommend this, and do this with their own children, when
necessary. No harm is done.

Less trauma for the child, and others around the child.

I would go with the view that the behavior was learned, and enabled by how
the child was raised. It is too late, to try to change behavior for one
instance, when it is allowed all along, in earlier times.
--
Jim in NC

On 24 Jan 2007 15:18:47 -0800, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:


I wonder if the pilots had to trim the aircraft to compensate for the
load.

On an airliner? Nah.

This *is* a serious issue, however. I spent several hours on a flight
to Atlanta seated in the last row of seats (the ones where the ceiling
curves over your head) next to a guy who was the size of two of me.

I liked riding DC-9s and their climb rate, but I heard people complain
about noise and vibration. I couldn't figure out what they were
talking about on a "9". THEN I had the privilege of taking a wait
listing out of Boston for O'Hare. (I should have waited for the next
day as the stay would have been more entertaining) At any rate I had
the outside seat in the row with no window and the seat back wouldn't
move. One seat farther back and I'd have had a private room. I
thought I was on a Gray Hound buss. It sounded like one, it vibrated
like one, and it even smelled like one.

But as to the W&B. I flew out of Boston this time on a DC10. This was
in the days before they limited carryon. Mine was a shoulder bag about
the size of a duffle bag and just as heavy. It would just fit in the
overhead if you worked really hard. I don't think there was an empty
seat. Of course being packed in like sardines IIRC, we were all
overjoyed to hear the announcement "You all will be glad to hear we
are number 57 in line to depart" This was out of Logan. At any rate
I was kinda glad we had to burn off fuel for over an hour when we took
off. It seemed as if we were getting light on the gear almost half
way down the runway. We finally started to bounce along on the gear as
we kept slowly accelerating. Finally the nose came up, but I could
feel the tail kinda tuck under. Any one who has ever felt over
rotation knows that feeling. At that point I must have grabbed the
arm rests as the guy beside me asked if I was OK. I squeaked out "I'm
fine" and then checked for finger prints in the arm rests. We went
between the cranes off the end of the runway as we cleared the
buildings. I have never seen a commercial flight clear the end of the
runway lower than that except for a DC-6 a longggg time ago. I was at
the end of the runway that time and saw his tires hit the tops of the
grass and weeds. I know they have checks on the weight of passengers
and baggage but I'll swear that DC-10 was overloaded.

At any rate a couple minutes later the guy asked me something and I
replied that sometimes it's better not to know what's going on. He
didn't ask any more questions.

When we got to Cleveland I was behind schedule due to the storm we had
just flown over, around, and through had knocked out the RADAR. One
nice young woman (pretty too IIRC) offered to help by getting my
carryon down. I hollered "don't" as I reached from behind her to catch
the bag just as she pulled the bag out of the overhead. We both went
over the armrest behind me with her ending up in my lap and the bag
over her lap. I sure was glad she though it was funny. Made the whole
trip worthwhile. (We had to wait until some kind soul helped move the
bag.)

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On 24 Jan 2007 17:55:00 -0800, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

PS. I hate the new Google Group interface. Judging from the feedback
in their help group, everyone hates it. No posting preview, small
space to view, etc. Woof.

Me, too. I had really grown to like the features of Google Groups, but
now they've butchered the user interface.

It was even better when it was Dejanews.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Grumman-581 wrote:
Would $5 per gallon be a good
figure? If so, that 15 minutes on the ground costs them $177...

I want to say Southwest airlines has its fuel hedged in the $2 range.
Remember you get a volume discount. The airnav rate is for the people
who buy it by the bucket, not the truckload.