The new Fork Tailed Doctor Killer

On 2008-03-20, Dan wrote:
Fly east and you're over the Alleghenies which -- while not the
Rockies --

Small mountains need to be treated with as much respect as big ones.
They are just as hard when you hit them. Our mountains here are very
small. Snaefell, at just over 2000 feet, is the largest one.

However, our small mountains have been claiming aircraft for decades
now. There's a memorial on North Barrule where a US B17 smacked into it.
The peak of North Barrule is only 1700' (it's a ridge). Many light
aircraft had been claimed by these hills - there's an entire book
devoted to Manx air crashes, and many of these were CFIT.

The most recent Manx hill victim was just last April.

Strong wind, rotor, curlover... small underpowered aircraft got caught
by the "clutching hand", and the 6000 hour pilot stalled and spun trying
to get out of it. Both of them survived, but the pilot, in the front
seat, was very seriously injured. The hills generating the rotor were
only 300 feet high, but just off the end of the runway, and there was 20
kts of wind.

The bigger hills, like Snaefell and North Barrule can generate severe
turbulence in all light aircraft altitudes, as well as some fairly
strong mountain wave. I've soared a powered aircraft in the wave lift
off these hills!

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:19 -0400, Roger
wrote:

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Well said.

To accomplish such polished competency requires regular use and
maintenance. I'd say a minimum of a cross country flight or more
weekly.

I think it depends on the pilot and the pilot's relationship with the
specific plane.

Here I agree with Dudley. Unless you are out in "weather" that is
beating the snot out of you the cross county , even in the clouds can
be relatively relaxed and even hand flown although that begins to
become tiresome after a couple of hours and that 's the time you are
going to need to be your sharpest. It's flying those new approaches
with the little unexpected things popping up that really build up the
polish.

The cross country is the easy part. It's working the pattern and the
airplane at and near the left side of the envelope in all configurations
that really completes the currency picture.
These airplanes require their pilots to simply go out and PRACTICE with
them perhaps more than they do.

PERHAPS? :-))

I think "purely personal opinion" based on 1300 hours in the Deb over
the last 12 years, these aren't exactly forgiving airplanes. They may
be pussycats (OK Streak excepted) compared to the big military
fighters, but they do not suffer lack of proficiency well.:-)) The
pilot really needs to know just about everything there is to know
about the specific plane when coming in to land be it an approach or
VFR pattern and they have to be flexible. Side step, circle to land,
missed and published holds, going missed on ATC's command, traffic
avoidance, doing things without hesitation or having to stop and
think. And this is assuming every thing works.:-)) Are we tilting a
little, do I have the leans, or is the AI dying? Man, what a time to
go partial panel.

Joining the ILS right at the outer marker when you have a tail wind of
20 or 30 knots (90 degrees to the localizer) really messes up your
nice turns.

Follow the guy ahead and expect the visual. Eh? I can't see the guy
ahead or the airport and I'm supposed to FOLLOW HIM? (Ben there,
done that ) Ahhhh... Approach, I can't see the twin ahead or the
airport. It's solid IMC up here. OK, maintain heading (what ever),
expect vectors to the visual on 09.

Circle left for the visual to 27. Say what? There's a whole string
of airliners departing 09. Oh! Then circle right for 09. I think
they do that just to see if you are paying attention.

And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
This is all true, and leans heavily into the IFR experience for all
airplanes, especially the high performance aircraft.
What I had in mind was much more basic; the getting out there and
practicing with the airplane in the area where a lot of the accidents
actually happen.....basic flying.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dan wrote:
On Mar 19, 10:45 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I'll tell you. A night takeoff out of Bader Field in Atlantic City NJ
out over the ocean on a moonless night can get "interesting: as well.
:-)

--
Dudley Henriques


Here's a sad NTSB that validates the danger of a moonless night
transition from land to ocean:

Accident occurred Friday, March 15, 2002 in Ocean City, MD
Aircraft: Cessna 172P, registration: N96811
Injuries: 4 Fatal.

The airplane was over water, making a night VFR approach to a coastal
airport. Witnesses observed it suddenly transition from horizontal
flight, to a vertical descent into the ocean. According to a witness
flying in the area at the time, the accident airplane went over a
"black hole," and he saw "strobe over strobe" before it disappeared.
The witness also noted that disorientation around the airport at night
was common because of the ocean. The accident occurred on a clear,
dark night, with no illumination from the moon. The pilot was not
instrument-rated, but had received instrument training under a hood in
VFR conditions.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's spatial disorientation, which resulted in his subsequent
loss of control of the airplane. A factor was the dark night, over
water visual conditions.

Last time I was at OXB, I took some friends for a night flight along
the coast. On takeoff from 14 by 200' AGL I was on solid instruments
until I could get turned back towards the shore. Even though I was
qualified and current, it required some disciple to maintain altitude
and heading.

Night VFR -- especially moonless nights in remote areas -- should be
considered IFR flying, if not legally, than practically.


Dan Mc


I agree. I never performed a night checkout that didn't include my
covering this exact scenario with a pilot. It's one of the "problem
scenarios" for the Private Pilot who flies a lot during the daytime VFR
going into night flying.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 20, 8:48 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I agree. I never performed a night checkout that didn't include my
covering this exact scenario with a pilot. It's one of the "problem
scenarios" for the Private Pilot who flies a lot during the daytime VFR
going into night flying.

--
Dudley Henriques

Back in October I was flying the V tail on a short repositioning
flight (40 nm) an on arrival I flew a circling approach to the only
manageable runway -- 14 which is basically the extra runway with no
PAPI, no REILS, poor condition markings, and a relatively short
runway.

There was a light overcast and no moon. There are no houses or roads
near the 14 approach, and the go around requires an immediate turn to
avoid flying straight into the ridge.

The pucker factor was high, and I remember repeating to myself "Fly
the airplane, and don't descend until you know you can glide directly
to the touchdown point."

Winds were rough and there was an easterly mountain rotor effect
giving me constant uncommanded rolls 30 degrees plus either direction.

On short final I had to tell myself repeatedly "Don't descend until
you see the numbers!"

Touchdown was gentle, but I had to open the vent window while still
rolling.

In rough conditions -- especially at night -- the temptation to "just
get it down" can be very strong. I can even empathize with the low
time or non proficient pilot being overwhelmed when all the variables
collide into one scary series of events.

I'm confident but wary at night. I spent many hours behind a set of
night vision devices during the Army's "we own the night" training
push, but that was in a Tank. A tree was just a bump.

Not so in an airplane.


Dan Mc

On Mar 19, 10:47*pm, Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:31:54 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
Even if it is pitch black outside, and you see nothing whatsoever
beyond your plane, and you need to fly by reference to instruments in
order to stay upright, you can still be in VFR conditions.

Which is the very reason it's not allowed in some countries.
If the pilot has to rely only on the instruments then he/she is
essentially IMC . Whether the visibility is 5 or 100 miles as it might
as well be zero.

Except for purposes of seeing (and being seen by) other aircraft.

Anyway, just keeping the plane upright by reference to instruments is
a very small part of the instrument curriculum. And it's also in the
private pilot curriculum. Sadly, though, many pilots do seem to
attempt night VFR flight without having maintained their core
instrument-flying proficiency.

approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles.
************************************************** **********************************
I have met some real experts at that... They are the superstars of
ATC...
I think their xmas bonus is calculated from the number of pilots they
have managed to panic into freezing up and blowing through the
localizer - like a deer in the headlights...

In their defense I will comment that they probably have given the same
litany so many hundreds of times it is like the Pope saying a Hail
Mary; over in 3.2 milliseconds...

denny

On Mar 20, 11:49 am, Denny wrote:
approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles.
************************************************** **********************************
I have met some real experts at that... They are the superstars of
ATC...
I think their xmas bonus is calculated from the number of pilots they
have managed to panic into freezing up and blowing through the
localizer - like a deer in the headlights...

In their defense I will comment that they probably have given the same
litany so many hundreds of times it is like the Pope saying a Hail
Mary; over in 3.2 milliseconds...

denny

"Unable"

On Mar 17, 7:48*am, Denny wrote:
Time moves along... The old V-tails are no longer the status symbol...
It appears to me that the Cirrus line of aircraft has become the new
"fork tailed doctor killer", along with stock broker, dentist, lawyer,
etc...

http://tinyurl.com/yqt94a

The preliminary NTSB report is out:
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?e...19X00332&key=1 .

There was an IFR flight plan. The plane crashed 3 west of the
departure airport. The terrain at the crash site was 500' higher than
the airport.

Dan wrote:
On Mar 20, 8:48 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I agree. I never performed a night checkout that didn't include my
covering this exact scenario with a pilot. It's one of the "problem
scenarios" for the Private Pilot who flies a lot during the daytime VFR
going into night flying.

--
Dudley Henriques

Back in October I was flying the V tail on a short repositioning
flight (40 nm) an on arrival I flew a circling approach to the only
manageable runway -- 14 which is basically the extra runway with no
PAPI, no REILS, poor condition markings, and a relatively short
runway.

There was a light overcast and no moon. There are no houses or roads
near the 14 approach, and the go around requires an immediate turn to
avoid flying straight into the ridge.

The pucker factor was high, and I remember repeating to myself "Fly
the airplane, and don't descend until you know you can glide directly
to the touchdown point."

Winds were rough and there was an easterly mountain rotor effect
giving me constant uncommanded rolls 30 degrees plus either direction.

On short final I had to tell myself repeatedly "Don't descend until
you see the numbers!"

Touchdown was gentle, but I had to open the vent window while still
rolling.

In rough conditions -- especially at night -- the temptation to "just
get it down" can be very strong. I can even empathize with the low
time or non proficient pilot being overwhelmed when all the variables
collide into one scary series of events.

I'm confident but wary at night. I spent many hours behind a set of
night vision devices during the Army's "we own the night" training
push, but that was in a Tank. A tree was just a bump.

Not so in an airplane.


Dan Mc






I know this situation well :-)) We had a small field we had to go into
at night and pick up pharmaceuticals in dry ice for delivery to Air
Freight at Philadelphia (many moons ago :-)

Going in there was like flying into an ink well. Nothing around for
miles but farmers fields. At 1AM, even the lights in the few houses
around the airport were out. You could see the landing lights on the
runway but little else, and they weren't the brightest either.
To make it worse, at that hour the local weather conditions in the
summer were usually conducive to low layers of ground fog.
You learned early on NEVER to use the landing lights. If you flew into
one of those layers, they blinded you right away and you lost ll sense
of the approach if you weren't careful. Without the lights on, you could
hit a layer of the stuff but still hold the lights through it.

Those were fun times. I was young and full of **** and vinegar. The most
important lessons we learned at that stage probably was that Nietzsche
was right. "That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger" :-)))


--
Dudley Henriques

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:13:06 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Mar 17, 7:48*am, Denny wrote:
Time moves along... The old V-tails are no longer the status symbol...
It appears to me that the Cirrus line of aircraft has become the new
"fork tailed doctor killer", along with stock broker, dentist, lawyer,
etc...

http://tinyurl.com/yqt94a

The preliminary NTSB report is out:
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?e...19X00332&key=1 .

There was an IFR flight plan. The plane crashed 3 west of the
departure airport. The terrain at the crash site was 500' higher than
the airport.

Selected excerpts:

All three propeller blades exhibited s-bending, chordwise
scratching, and leading edge gouging.

So there's a possibility the engine was developing power at the time
of impact.

The pilot owned and operated the accident airplane, which he
purchased new in 2006. The pilot's most recent Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) third-class medical certificate was issued on
October 15, 2007. At that time, he reported a total flight
experience of 180 hours. The pilot obtained his instrument rating
on September 20, 2006.

That's not a lot of hours, but the pilot flew ~111 hours in 9 months,
so he was keeping reasonably current:

... the airplane's most recent annual inspection was completed on
June 13, 2007. At that time, the airplane had accumulated 157.7
total hours of operation. An airworthiness directive was complied
with 9 days prior to the accident. At that time the airplane had
accumulated 267.8 total hours of operation.

An airworthiness directive was complied with 9 days prior to the
accident. At that time the airplane had accumulated 267.8 total
hours of operation.

The temporal juxtaposition of the AD work and the accident may be
coincidental, but... I wonder what the AD was about.

Winchester Regional Airport (OKV) was located about 15 miles north
of the accident site. The reported weather at OKV, at 0000, was:
wind from 340 degrees at 4 knots; visibility 3 miles in rain;
broken ceiling at 2,400 feet; overcast ceiling at 3,000 feet;...

There's plenty of room for marginal VFR conditions in that report.

The NTSB report states:

An instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan was filed for the
personal flight conducted under 14 Code of Federal Regulations
Part 91.

But it's unclear if the flight was conducted under IFR. If it were,
wouldn't it be operating under Part 97?

The airplane departed on runway 27, and impacted a mountain ridge
approximately 3 miles west at 2350. The airport elevation was 709
feet above mean sea level (msl).

The wreckage was located on the mountain ridge, about 1200 feet
msl. An approximate 100-feet debris path was observed through
trees, extending on a 170-degree magnetic course, to the main
wreckage.

It looks like lower terrain was to the south:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=38.917...29612&t=p&z=15