A Google Groups alternative to rec.aviation.piloting?

On Aug 16, 7:20*pm, Dudley Henriques

Just sick of dealing with it and won't any more.

So don't..... :-((((((((

Lowers your blood pressure and improves the quality of the group.

I really thought better of you.... but again, oh well...

Last I will post on this topic........

wrote:
On Aug 16, 8:35 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:

On second thought, don't bother with me on other forums. Wouldn't work
well at all.
Thank you

--
Dudley Henriques

Ummm, did you wrongly attribute Mx posting to me regarding cessna
pitch up????????

I don't think so. I've simply realized that you and I might not be the
best pairing for meaningful aviation dialog. You seem more interested in
my persona than in any expertise I might have or not have.
Anyway, you get one off topic lecture shot at me, and you have taken yours.

Hey, best to you. No hard feelings.

--
Dudley Henriques

In article ,
" wrote:

On Aug 16, 8:35*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:

On second thought, don't bother with me on other forums. Wouldn't work
well at all.
Thank you

--
Dudley Henriques

Ummm, did you wrongly attribute Mx posting to me regarding cessna
pitch up????????

More likely: someone is impersonating DH.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

wrote:
On Aug 16, 7:20 pm, Dudley Henriques

Just sick of dealing with it and won't any more.

So don't..... :-((((((((

Lowers your blood pressure and improves the quality of the group.

I really thought better of you.... but again, oh well...

Last I will post on this topic........

THANK GOD!!! :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Mxsmanic wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:

Could be bad even if you go in a BIG boat.

That has occurred to me, which is probably why I'm unlikely to go on a cruise
(even though I've been told that the best cruises are quite nice).

"She can stay afloat with the first four compartments flooded, but not
five--not five."

Swimming is something you could learn with little trouble Anthony. Not
much cost involved I would think. I'm a lousy swimmer myself, but can
get along well enough not to drown.
For cruises, I pay very close attention to the life boat drill :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

On Aug 16, 9:32*pm, Bob Noel
wrote:

More likely: someone is impersonating DH.

Hopefull thinking?????? Something weird going on....

Responses I have received way have been I thought undeserving and way
off base from DH (if indeed him). My responses to him were in the
interest of preserving the newsgroup and NOTHING about his
personality.....

Back on topic..... Jeeez, need to get my plane back in service so I
can commit aviation rather then sit in front of this durn
computer :-)

Hoping this thunderstormy weather will break so I can get a big enough
"playing field" to do some "sky writing" in Flight Aware.

Been one crazy August down here in the deep south. 83 as a high temp
without a tropical system involved just about unheard of for this time
of the year :-)

Dudley Henriques writes:

As you know, lift increases with airspeed, so actually, the pilot, by
applying back pressure at rotation, is simply helping a natural process
that would lift the aircraft off the runway as the airspeed produces the
needed lift for the gross weight and at the same time controlling that
natural process in both direction and pitch.

I haven't actually noticed the behavior of the 182 in the simulator so I
can't comment on that, but if I recall, you said something about it
being too flat???

It doesn't seem to pitch up in the way that other aircraft do. I pull back on
the stick and it rises a little bit, but not like other aircraft.

Watching videos of these Cessnas taking off, it also appears that they don't
pitch up much as they leave the runway, or before leaving the runway.

I figured it might have something to do with the high-wing design (?).

As far as I can tell (I just compared again), the videos match the sim, or
perhaps I should say the sim matches the videos, and I tried two different
Cessnas (one by Carenado, and one by Flight1).

You don't want a lot of pitch input at rotation in most airplanes as it
is possible if you lead the lift a bit to drag the tail. If you have the
needed lift, as soon as the wing senses the increase in angle of attack
the airplane will leave the runway. The trick when this happens is
actually to keep the nose down in some airplanes rather than raise it
because if the aircraft is accelerating (and it is), it "wants" to go UP!

Cessnas seem eager to fly. But I'm still rotating at too high a speed (around
80 KIAS), which could have something to do with that.

A B52 is a perfect example of a flat rotation. Watch a video of a B52
takeoff and you will notice that the aircraft just seems to "leave the
runway". This is a normal take off for the 52. In the cockpit, the
actual yoke pitch input is quite small in this airplane.

I've read that the angle of incidence on the B-52 is so severe that it can
take off with the fuselage level, and it can land with the fuselage nose-down.
Videos seem to confirm this.

For a 182, you should be getting a normal rotation with just a little
yoke pressure at lift off causing that as the airplane reaches the
airspeed where lift is being created that allows the airplane to fly.

That seems to be what is happening. In the Baron I need to be more brisk
about pulling back the yoke.

If you are seeing a flat rotation in the sim for the 182, try simply
using a bit more yoke pressure but not enough that you exceed Vy. Just
rotate and then find the nose attitude that produces a Vy airspeed for
you as you clean up the airplane into climb settings.

I will keep practicing. Right now I'm wrestling with the AFDS on a 767 (VNAV
on the FMC isn't very good at respecting altitude constraints on a descent
profile), but I'll probably fire up my 182 just to take a break (something
_completely_ different).

Dudley Henriques writes:

Swimming is something you could learn with little trouble ...

Tried several times, failed. Almost drowned on several occasions. I just
avoid water now.

For cruises, I pay very close attention to the life boat drill :-))

On overseas flights I scrutinize the waves below and try to remain hopeful.

writes:

Yeah, also, like airplanes, motorcycles, social contact, finding a
real job, relationships...

I don't see anything scary about these things, although some of them don't
sound very interesting.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:

As you know, lift increases with airspeed, so actually, the pilot, by
applying back pressure at rotation, is simply helping a natural process
that would lift the aircraft off the runway as the airspeed produces the
needed lift for the gross weight and at the same time controlling that
natural process in both direction and pitch.

I haven't actually noticed the behavior of the 182 in the simulator so I
can't comment on that, but if I recall, you said something about it
being too flat???

It doesn't seem to pitch up in the way that other aircraft do. I pull back on
the stick and it rises a little bit, but not like other aircraft.

It might be a glitch in the program. Microsoft had the DC3 coupling in
yaw/roll in the wrong direction until we spotted it during the FSX beta
process and had them correct it :-)

Watching videos of these Cessnas taking off, it also appears that they don't
pitch up much as they leave the runway, or before leaving the runway.

I figured it might have something to do with the high-wing design (?).

The wing on the Cessna is slippery with angle of attack and will react
quickly. Each wing on an airplane is a bit different. It all has to do
with how the leading edge handles the angle of attack change as the
airplane rotates. Some leading edges are more pronounced than others.
The Cherokee wing for example (the old Hershey Bar wing) had a very
pronounced leading edge curve that rotated the airplane quickly as the
angle of attack increased. The Cessna leading edge is a bit more
streamlined and the lift increase RATE at rotation might be a bit flatter.
The answer is on the individual lift curves for every wing where lift
coefficient vs aoa can be viewed.

As far as I can tell (I just compared again), the videos match the sim, or
perhaps I should say the sim matches the videos, and I tried two different
Cessnas (one by Carenado, and one by Flight1).

You don't want a lot of pitch input at rotation in most airplanes as it
is possible if you lead the lift a bit to drag the tail. If you have the
needed lift, as soon as the wing senses the increase in angle of attack
the airplane will leave the runway. The trick when this happens is
actually to keep the nose down in some airplanes rather than raise it
because if the aircraft is accelerating (and it is), it "wants" to go UP!

Cessnas seem eager to fly. But I'm still rotating at too high a speed (around
80 KIAS), which could have something to do with that.

80 isn't all that bad for a normal takeoff in a 182. Sea Level Vy for
the airplane if I remember is right around 78kts? Been a long time :-)

A B52 is a perfect example of a flat rotation. Watch a video of a B52
takeoff and you will notice that the aircraft just seems to "leave the
runway". This is a normal take off for the 52. In the cockpit, the
actual yoke pitch input is quite small in this airplane.

I've read that the angle of incidence on the B-52 is so severe that it can
take off with the fuselage level, and it can land with the fuselage nose-down.
Videos seem to confirm this.

It is interesting to watch.

For a 182, you should be getting a normal rotation with just a little
yoke pressure at lift off causing that as the airplane reaches the
airspeed where lift is being created that allows the airplane to fly.

That seems to be what is happening. In the Baron I need to be more brisk
about pulling back the yoke.

That computes for me.

If you are seeing a flat rotation in the sim for the 182, try simply
using a bit more yoke pressure but not enough that you exceed Vy. Just
rotate and then find the nose attitude that produces a Vy airspeed for
you as you clean up the airplane into climb settings.

I will keep practicing. Right now I'm wrestling with the AFDS on a 767 (VNAV
on the FMC isn't very good at respecting altitude constraints on a descent
profile), but I'll probably fire up my 182 just to take a break (something
_completely_ different).

Hang in there. You're doing fine!


--
Dudley Henriques