Student Drop-Out Rates...why?

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:36:50 GMT, "private"
wrote:

To ignore the money issue is to ignore the elephant in the room.

There's another elephant. The instructor explains that flying is all
about risk management, and the student thinks, "Well, ****. Probably
90% of the people who died in airplanes thought they were managing
their risks to the extent that they didn't expect to die that day.
The instructor as much as said right now that only way I can
*completely* manage the risk of dying in an airplane is by staying out
of them. There's lots of risky things in life I can't avoid, but
flying is a lifestyle choice."

Don (Flying with that elephant since 1968. "So far, so good.")

You'll notice I've not mentioned the Number One reason people mention for
quitting: Money.

To ignore the money issue is to ignore the elephant in the room.

Right. However, we can't change the money situation. We CAN change
the other variables that are causing the appallingly high student drop
out rate in aviation.

An investment in a used Harley or Corvette will earn a greater return than a
similar amount invested in an aircraft, and both can be reconditioned in
your home garage, have cheaper (but often identical) parts and qualify for
"owner maintenance".

Well, I don't think a Corvette is going to appreciate as much as a
common single engine plane. I bought my Warrior for $32.7 K and sold
it for $40 K, after flying the pants off of it for four years.

Now, of course, I put a TON of stuff into it -- mostly with sweat
equity. I think you are under-estimating the amount of stuff an owner
can do to enhance the quality and value of an airplane.

Cosmetics make a HUGE difference in the value of an airplane, and it's
one of the easiest areas for an owner to address. Replace the ratty
interior, fix the cracked plastic, reupholster the seats, buff out the
paint, put some ArmorAll on the rubber, and shazam -- you've got a MUCH
more valuable aircraft.

I would love to have my own aircraft (and have the
cash) but have listened carefully to the experiences of other owners and
have run the numbers for myself and I just can not justify the cost (or the
financial risk), especially after considering that the ongoing burdens of
insurance, fuel, regulation, hangar and maintenance are going nowhere but
up.

Sounds like you're a candidate for a homebuilt aircraft?

The private fleet is getting more than a little long in the tooth and I
must question where the new buyers are coming from to continue to subsidize
the keep of our aging hangar queens that we can not afford to fly due to the
rapidly increasing costs of fuel (approaching 6$C/usgal) and maintenance.

Gasoline is only now getting back to the price it was (in real terms)
back in the 1980s. As painful as I'm finding it to refuel our plane
(and we burn car gas!), I must remind myself that the last 20 years
have really been a tremendous bargain.


I continue to fly as much as possible but there are not many interesting
aircraft available for rent and the level of liability we assume as renters
is frankly scary.

In what way?

Until I find a way to make the cost of flying more reasonable, I will
consider it a luxury that I will consume as long as I find it enjoyable and
in the amount that I can afford. None of my thoughts are likely to make any
of my friends wish to take up the addiction.

Yes, you should probably keep them to yourself, lest we scare away any
new pilots!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
...
Gasoline is only now getting back to the price it was (in real terms)
back in the 1980s.

Don't fall for that propaganda regarding "1981 prices, in today's
dollars." There was a spike in crude prices during the Iran-Iraq war.
Retail price, in real dollars, on either side of that spike (late 70's
and mid-80s) were significantly less than today.

Fred F.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:20:21 -0400, "TaxSrv" wrote
in ::

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
...
Gasoline is only now getting back to the price it was (in real terms)
back in the 1980s.

Don't fall for that propaganda regarding "1981 prices, in today's
dollars." There was a spike in crude prices during the Iran-Iraq war.
Retail price, in real dollars, on either side of that spike (late 70's
and mid-80s) were significantly less than today.


What I want to know is why the Windfall Profits Tax (implemented by
President Carter in 1972 IIRC) hasn't been mentioned yet. It would
seem that domestic oil producers' costs haven't risen anywhere near
the price of crude.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:20:21 -0400, "TaxSrv" wrote
in ::

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
...
Gasoline is only now getting back to the price it was (in real terms)
back in the 1980s.

Don't fall for that propaganda regarding "1981 prices, in today's
dollars." There was a spike in crude prices during the Iran-Iraq war.
Retail price, in real dollars, on either side of that spike (late 70's
and mid-80s) were significantly less than today.


What I want to know is why the Windfall Profits Tax (implemented by
President Carter in 1972 IIRC) hasn't been mentioned yet. It would
seem that domestic oil producers' costs haven't risen anywhere near
the price of crude.

Why should they be taxed more just because they are in the right place at
the right time? Should we tax stock investors at a higher rate during bull
markets? BTW Nixon was president in 1972

Mike
MU-2

Jay Honeck wrote:

Well, I don't think a Corvette is going to appreciate as much as a
common single engine plane.

A used Corvette will appreciate just as fast as a used Piper, and a new Piper
will depreciate just as fast as a new Corvette.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

I can't help thinking that if we made learning to fly a lot easier, and made
airplanes a lot simpler to fly safely, and made them as cheap as cars --
then they'd be as common as cars and we'd be bitching about all the newbies
cluttering up our airspace. We'd have midair collisions every day, across
the country. A lot of us would quit in frustration.

Like the man said, "It's supposed to be hard. If it was easy, everyone
would do it."

Seth

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:BjQOe.2824$SW1.387@trndny09...
Jay Honeck wrote:

Well, I don't think a Corvette is going to appreciate as much as a
common single engine plane.

A used Corvette will appreciate just as fast as a used Piper, and a new
Piper will depreciate just as fast as a new Corvette.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Seth Masia wrote:
I can't help thinking that if we made learning to fly a lot easier, and made
airplanes a lot simpler to fly safely, and made them as cheap as cars --
then they'd be as common as cars and we'd be bitching about all the newbies
cluttering up our airspace. We'd have midair collisions every day, across
the country. A lot of us would quit in frustration.

I believe you're right. Since the FAA is tasked with improving safety, that's
probably the reason for a lot of what they do. "If too many of 'em get into the
air, it ain't hard enough -- write some more regs."

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Jay Honeck wrote:

Gasoline is only now getting back to the price it was (in real terms)
back in the 1980s.

And that's producing more of the crazy "gas-saver" products. I ran into this one
today.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L15F25BAB

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:13:55 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:

Gasoline is only now getting back to the price it was (in real terms)
back in the 1980s.

And that's producing more of the crazy "gas-saver" products. I ran into this one
today.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L15F25BAB

Yah know, when I was a teen ager my dad had suggested just such a
thing. BTW, the winning bid was $41. Did some one actually pay that?
IF so PT Barnum was right.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.