Feds Want to Equipe Gliders With Transponders and Radios

On Thu, 1 May 2008 16:11:39 -0500, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
:

DHS does not dictate ATC policy.

Not directly, however it appears there is cooperation among the
various departments, including DHS and DOT's FAA through the Next
Generation Air Transportation system Joint Planning and Development
Office as well as DOT's Research and Innovative Technology
Administration. So while DHS not dictate ATC policy, it would seem
that DHS is able to influence the direction of ATC's future, if not
current, path:


http://www.jpdo.gov/newsArticle.asp?ID=5
On September 9, 2004, the Joint Planning and Development Office
and the Air Traffic Control Association co-sponsored a symposium
in Washington, DC on Network Enabled Operations (NEO) for
Aviation. Attended by more than a hundred representatives from the
private and public sector, it featured a diverse group of speakers
who delved into how NEO relates to the Next Generation Air
Transportation System, its potential benefits, and the changes and
barriers that must be overcome if transformation is to be
achieved. The following is a synopsis of the symposium's sessions.
...

[NB: The prime advocate of user-fees is the corporation with the
satellite-based ATC product, below:]

Neil Planzer, Boeing's Vice President, Strategy, Advanced ATM
Systems, looked at the "hidden challenges and obstructions" to
transformation. He said that the root problem is that there is "no
political imperative today for us to change." Moreover, he
contended that previous technological failures and budget
constraints could further contribute to hindering transformation.
Mr. Planzer also argued that the hub and spoke system "embeds in
the [ATC] system a capacity problem." He concluded that if
transformation is to succeed, a strong argument has to be made as
to its security value to the Departments of Defense (DOD) and
Homeland Security (DHS).

Derek Smith, Information Technology Program Manager for the
Transportation Security Administration in DHS saw five issues
influencing the transformation towards NEO: (1) socio-political,
such as the inability to motivate the workforce to change from the
legacy systems to NEO; (2) missions may not be able to accommodate
future needs and process controls; (3) full start-up funding; (4)
security needs and; (5) the socialization of each issue.
...



http://www.jpdo.gov/whoswho.asp
Next Generation Air Transportation system Joint Planning and
Development Office




http://www.jpdo.gov/library/In_Brief_2006.pdf
How Nextgen and the JPDO Came To Be
In 2003, Congress passed Vision 100—Century of Aviation
Reauthorization Act which chartered the Joint Planning and
Development Office (JPDO) to begin work on the planning and
implementation of the Next Generation Air Transportation System.
What Congress envisioned, and what has developed since, is an
unprecedented initiative. It involves not only the Federal
Aviation Administration, but also the Departments of
Transportation, Defense, Homeland Security, Commerce, NASA, and
the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.
But it is not solely a government program. To ensure...



http://www.jpdo.gov/library/Sturgell_Web.pdf
JOINT STATEMENT OF ROBERT STURGELL, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL
AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, AND CHARLES LEADER, DIRECTOR, JOINT
PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT OFFICE, BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON
TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON AVIATION ON THE
FUTURE OF AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL MODERNIZATION
May 9, 2007
Good morning Chairman Costello, Congressman ...

SESAR, like NextGen, has a lot of work remaining to refine
assumptions and better define the system. However, there is an
important difference in scope between SESAR and NextGen. While
SESAR focuses almost exclusively on air traffic management,
NextGen takes what’s called a “curb-to-curb” approach, and
includes not only air traffic control, but also airports, airport
operations, security and passenger management, and DoD and DHS NAS
requirements. ...




http://www.rita.dot.gov/publications...ection_04.html
U.S. Department of Transportation
Research and Innovative Technology Administration

DOT's operating administrations coordinate with other agencies in
specific areas of mutual interest. Among the agencies with which
the administrations collaborate are the following:

Department of Commerce : Within the Department of Commerce (DOC),
a number of agencies conduct research relevant to transportation.
Current DOT efforts with DOC include: (1) FHWA work with the
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) on
high-performance concrete; (2) FHWA - National Weather Service
research on road weather observations; (3) an FRA - NIST effort on
the fire safety of passenger rail car materials; and (4) the Joint
Planning and Development Office (JPDO), through which the FAA,
DOC, NASA, DOD, and DHS are defining the future air transportation
system.

In rec.aviation.soaring Sarah Anderson wrote:

Don't they also intend to require a mode C transponder inside class B "veils"?

A reading of
Remove the glider exemptions from the Federal Aviation Regulations
that pertain to transponder requirements and use.

would seem to imply that. There are a lot of people ( like me ) operating underneath class Bs

Yes, the idea would be to make the requirements the same as for powered
aircraft. This would no doubt have a large impact on a lot of people,
particularly our Western bretheren who think nothing of cracking 10,000ft,
and people such as yourself who operate close to class B. But it's not the
same as a blanket requirement as has been implied.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

In article writes:

Don't they also intend to require a mode C transponder inside class B "veils"?

A reading of
Remove the glider exemptions from the Federal Aviation Regulations
that pertain to transponder requirements and use.

would seem to imply that. There are a lot of people ( like me ) operating underneath class Bs

In a sailplane? Wow. Doesn't give much vertical space. How much room do you have from base
of class B to the surface? You must have to find lift pretty often...

Alan

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 May 2008 16:11:39 -0500, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
:

DHS does not dictate ATC policy.

Not directly, however it appears there is cooperation among the
various departments, including DHS and DOT's FAA through the Next
Generation Air Transportation system Joint Planning and Development
Office as well as DOT's Research and Innovative Technology
Administration. So while DHS not dictate ATC policy, it would seem
that DHS is able to influence the direction of ATC's future, if not
current, path:


It seems you've again copied and pasted without reading the material or
understanding it.

The issue is the veil. The shelves are high enough (6000/7000 msl) to get in and out staying
clear of class B.


Alan wrote:
In article writes:
Don't they also intend to require a mode C transponder inside class B "veils"?

A reading of
Remove the glider exemptions from the Federal Aviation Regulations
that pertain to transponder requirements and use.
would seem to imply that. There are a lot of people ( like me ) operating underneath class Bs

In a sailplane? Wow. Doesn't give much vertical space. How much room do you have from base
of class B to the surface? You must have to find lift pretty often...

Alan

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
m...
Are you asking about stoke or if it is a problem to ATC?


I'm asking how TSA's view of things is a problem to ATC.





If national security, a DHS issue, overlaps ATC, a DOT issue, don't
count on DOT winning the argument.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
m...
TSA is in DHS, DHS does not dictate ATC policy.
No the POTUS does and he probably listens to DHS more than DOT.


What ATC policies have been dictated by the POTUS? Why would the POTUS rely
on DHS for ATC policy over DOT? Would he rely on DOT over DHS on security
matters?



And policy promulgated by DOT, DHS, DOD, is dictated by the POTUS. In
most cases it is actually dictated by people he selects to handle those
departments but the final authority rests on the desk of the POTUS.

As for your other two questions think overlap.

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
m...
Are you asking about stoke or if it is a problem to ATC?


I'm asking how TSA's view of things is a problem to ATC.





If national security, a DHS issue, overlaps ATC, a DOT issue, don't
count on DOT winning the argument.

Yes one must concider the potential horror of fleets of all fiberglass
gliders with no transponders coming across the Atlantic filled with
terrorists and nuclear bombs.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
m...
Are you asking about stoke or if it is a problem to ATC?

I'm asking how TSA's view of things is a problem to ATC.





If national security, a DHS issue, overlaps ATC, a DOT issue, don't
count on DOT winning the argument.

Yes one must concider the potential horror of fleets of all fiberglass
gliders with no transponders coming across the Atlantic filled with
terrorists and nuclear bombs.



I didn't imply that there was such a threat. This as most conversations
with Mr. McNicoll is an offshoot of the original conversation. Because
he made some comment that while not really wrong isn't how the real
world works.

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
m...
Are you asking about stoke or if it is a problem to ATC?

I'm asking how TSA's view of things is a problem to ATC.





If national security, a DHS issue, overlaps ATC, a DOT issue, don't
count on DOT winning the argument.

Yes one must concider the potential horror of fleets of all fiberglass
gliders with no transponders coming across the Atlantic filled with
terrorists and nuclear bombs.



I didn't imply that there was such a threat. This as most conversations
with Mr. McNicoll is an offshoot of the original conversation. Because
he made some comment that while not really wrong isn't how the real
world works.

Didn't say you did.

My point is that in a sane world (big leap of faith there) DHS wouldn't
have any interest in gliders as one would be hard pressed to come up
with a scenario involving national security and a glider.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.