Rutan hits 200k feet! Almost there!

On Fri, 14 May 2004 22:44:42 -0700, Steve Hix
wrote:

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Vaughn" wrote in message
news

Sorry, but I have to go with Pete here, the relevent point is that
it is being done by a small private corporation...and they are making
it look easy!

What is significant about a private corporation duplicating a feat that a
government agency accomplished decades earlier?

They don't need a cast of thousands and a couple hundred million to do
it.

The X-15 program didn't have a cast of thousands. It also didn't cost
a couple hundred million. In fact, it didn't even have a cast of a
thousand, now that I think about it. Maybe two or three hundred
people, for all three vehicles, at most. The cost was in the
millions, of course, but not hundreds of millions.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

On Sat, 15 May 2004 10:54:58 -0700, Mary Shafer
wrote in Message-Id: :

The cost was in the millions, of course, but not hundreds of millions.

What would the cost be adjusted for four decades of inflation?

--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

In article ,
(Peter Stickney) wrote:

However, granting that - here's the list of altitude flights by X-15
#3 66672, (Which, it should be pointed out, wasn't the ablative coated
X-15A-II 66671.

Date (1963) Elapsed since Altitude Comment
previous flight
18 June 0 Days 223,700' Pilot: Rushworth
27 June 9 Days 285,000 Rushworth, (over 50 miles)
U.S. Astronaut
qualification
19 Jul 22 Days 347,800 Pilot: Walker (Over
100 Km) Intl Atro
qualification
6 Aug 17 Days Abort Weather Abort &
Computer overheat
13 Aug 7 Days Abort APU doesn't start
15 Aug 2 Days Abort weather Abort
22 Aug 7 Days 354,200 Walker: second
Intl Astro Qual

All X-15 operations postponed due to weather for 6 weeks after this
flight.

So, we've got 2 high altitude flights separated by 9 days,

Two-thirds of the height of the max alt flights needed under X-Prize.

What we have is two "qualifying" flights in July/August, separated by a
month, two hardware failures and a couple of weather failures. So, by
your own admission, they couldn't do it.

I'd say that if somebody had really wanted to fly 2 over 100 Km X-15
flights somewhere around 10 days apart, they'd have certainly been
able to do it.

But, in the actual records, they *couldn't*. Computer overheat,
vulnerability to weather, bad APU... nope, they couldn't manage it, even
with the less-stringent "rules" in effect.

If the Rutan craft doesn't manage to do the two flights in two weeks
because of some weather issues, will you argue that they could have done
it?

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article .net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

Well, if that's true, you'll be able to cite the statements I made
that are incorrect. Please take a shot at establishing some
credibility and do so.

Every time I've mentioned it so far, you've gotten a sudden case of
amnesia, with a side-dose of "I didn't say that."

**** off.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
iespam (N329DF) wrote:

Subject: Rutan hits 200k feet! Almost there!
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"

Well, if that's true, you'll be able to cite the statements I made
that are incorrect. Please take a shot at establishing some
credibility and do so.

Am I the only one to think this, is this guy acting/sounding like
tarver ? I mean you tell him the fact, give him proof and he still
does not get it.

No, Tarver would have made up some new words by now, and told us that
the Rutan craft won't work because it doesn't have strakes.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
Mary Shafer wrote:

You misunderstand. If carrying a crew of three in the X-15 had been
necessary, the X-15 would have been designed to do so from the
beginning. The X-Prize contenders knew that they had to carry three,
so the vehicles are designed to do so.

The only way they could have managed to design the X-15 to carry three
people was, well, they did that with the Dyna-Soar.

Saying that the X-15 can't meet the X-Prize rules, promulgated four
decades after the X-15 was designed, is an irrational statement.

Nope, claiming that it *could* meet the X-Prize rules is an irrational
statement. Telling someone it couldn't is what we use to *counter* that
guy's statement.

The X-15 was a very significant and important craft. We're still taking
advantage of the things it taught us. It was not an Arndt-like
ubercraft that could do anything if you added pieces on or redefined the
problems 40 years later.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

wrote in message ...

The significant part, which you so blithely dismissed, is that
it is being done by private industry. No government funding, no
trying to "beat the Ruskies" to manned spaceflight. Just because
the richest government in the world could afford to do it 40 years
ago does not mean a private project could have. Certainly no
privately funded project has done so yet. I know you say that
isn't significant, but it very much is.


Prove it.

Uh, prove what? That you don't think it's significant?
You have said as much. If you can't see the signifigant
difference between government funded and private
I'm not going to try to "prove" it to you, because you
are just being deliberately obtuse.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

The problem is that merely reaching the altitude is only a
part of the problem. The real issue is achieving orbital velocity
and the Rutan aircraft doesnt achive much more than 15%
of the velocity required to put something in orbit.


Why is that an issue?

Because without reaching orbit you cant do anything useful.

Reaching the altitude is all they're trying to do.

Thats obvious

Keith

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
.com...
In article ,
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

The problem is that merely reaching the altitude is only a
part of the problem. The real issue is achieving orbital velocity

No, it's not.

http://www.xprize.org/teams/guidelines.html


I'm aware of the rules of the X prize. Lots of posters in this thread have
made
comparisons with NASA and alluded to civilian space flight.
You need to achieve orbital velocity to do that.


Keith

From: iespam (N329DF)
Date: 5/15/2004 11:45 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Rutan hits 200k feet! Almost there!
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 5/15/04 9:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time
Message-id: .net


"Chad Irby" wrote in message
. rr.com...

Except for the rules of the X-Prize, the details of the X-15, and pretty
much everything else.


Well, if that's true, you'll be able to cite the statements I made that are
incorrect. Please take a shot at establishing some credibility and do so.


Am I the only one to think this, is this guy acting/sounding like tarver ? I
mean you tell him the fact, give him proof and he still does not get it.


More like marron. Tarver would have resorted to abuse and vulgar language by
now.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired