If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....

From: Mike Marron

snip

Airborne in "4-minutes" is all hunky dory but since they reportedly
weren't even armed, what were the fighters gonna do if they merged
with the hijacked airliners -- RAM 'em?

Try some aerodynamics, the fighter puts his wing over the wing tip of the
airliner without touching and the airliner will roll in that direction. That's
one of the ways Hurricanes took out V-1s. It helped that the V-1 didn't have
the capability to self right, but you may be able to get the idea if you think
hard enough. If that doesn't work THEN you ram. One F-16 pilot versus how many
on the ground?

Now, try giving us exact examples of how the Air Force mission was to stop
9/11. Stop giving us "they should have known." All that proves is how you have
no idea what the USAF actually does.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
news
"Pete" wrote:

Pete
Run away, insult, or answer the actual question. Your choice.

Pot Kettle Black.

Run away, insult, or answer the actual question. Your choice. Are you
saying that the USAF is exempt from sharing any blame for 9/11?

Please answer with a simple "yea" or "nay" right here --___ yes ____

(ArtKramr) wrote in message ...
If you didn't fight in WW II do you feel as though your had missed something?
Do you feel that given your druthers you'd rather have been there than not? Any
regrets at having missed it? Anyone?

I consider myself extremely fortunate that I've never been part of any
war. War is something to avoid, no long for.

Rob

" to this day I too am confounded by the apparent
ineptness of the USAF (and especially the American intelligence
community) both of whom utterly failed to prevent the apocalyptic
death and destruction of 9/11."

This is the way you do it:

1) If the USAF, the "intelligence community," and especially the
president don't succeed in stopping terrorist attacks, you blame their
inepitude.

2) If they do succeed in stopping terrorist attacks, you blame them
for instrusive measures against an unreal enemy.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

" to this day I too am confounded by the apparent
ineptness of the USAF (and especially the American intelligence
community) both of whom utterly failed to prevent the apocalyptic
death and destruction of 9/11."

This is the way you do it:

1) If the USAF, the "intelligence community," and especially the
president don't succeed in stopping terrorist attacks, you blame their
inepitude.

Correct. It all boils down to exactly that. The air force, in
addition to the army, navy, marine corps and coast guard along
with the vast array of civilian intelligence and national security
agencies are all paid good money to defend the U.S. Afterall,
that be their jobs, man. But all of the above completely and totally
failed to do that on 9/11. Now, had they succeeded in stopping the
terrorist attacks on 9/11 we would all be singing their praises still
to this day. Oh well...ya' win some and ya lose some.

2) If they do succeed in stopping terrorist attacks, you blame them
for instrusive measures against an unreal enemy.

Incorrect. No terrorist attacks on American soil in more than two
years is sierra hotel. Dubya & Co. has my vote in November.
Unfortunately, it won't bring back the 3,000 American lives that
were slaughtered on 9/11.

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
Cub Driver wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

" to this day I too am confounded by the apparent
ineptness of the USAF (and especially the American intelligence
community) both of whom utterly failed to prevent the apocalyptic
death and destruction of 9/11."

This is the way you do it:

1) If the USAF, the "intelligence community," and especially the
president don't succeed in stopping terrorist attacks, you blame their
inepitude.

Correct. It all boils down to exactly that. The air force, in
addition to the army, navy, marine corps and coast guard along
with the vast array of civilian intelligence and national security
agencies are all paid good money to defend the U.S. Afterall,
that be their jobs, man. But all of the above completely and totally
failed to do that on 9/11. Now, had they succeeded in stopping the
terrorist attacks on 9/11 we would all be singing their praises still
to this day. Oh well...ya' win some and ya lose some.


True enough but the issue is what was the nature of the failure ?

The primary agency responsible for defense against international
terrorism within the USA prior to Sept 11 was presumably the
FBI with the CIA being responsible for collecting such intelligence
overseas as may indicate foreign agencies involved

As an outsider it seems to me that it was those two agencies
along with the INS that failed to identify the nature of the
threat and the individuals involved. Had they given the USAF
a timely warning then by all means blame that body but they
clearly did not and the USAF would be heavily criticised if
it tried to usurp the functions of either the CIA or FBI.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Correct. It all boils down to exactly that. The air force, in
addition to the army, navy, marine corps and coast guard along
with the vast array of civilian intelligence and national security
agencies are all paid good money to defend the U.S. Afterall,
that be their jobs, man. But all of the above completely and totally
failed to do that on 9/11. Now, had they succeeded in stopping the
terrorist attacks on 9/11 we would all be singing their praises still
to this day. Oh well...ya' win some and ya lose some.

True enough but the issue is what was the nature of the failure ?

The primary agency responsible for defense against international
terrorism within the USA prior to Sept 11 was presumably the
FBI with the CIA being responsible for collecting such intelligence
overseas as may indicate foreign agencies involved

As an outsider it seems to me that it was those two agencies
along with the INS that failed to identify the nature of the
threat and the individuals involved. Had they given the USAF
a timely warning then by all means blame that body but they
clearly did not and the USAF would be heavily criticised if
it tried to usurp the functions of either the CIA or FBI.

Plenty of folks, including myself, know that there's plenty of blame
to go around for the 9/11 massacre. The obvious failures of the CIA,
FBI, INS, etc. aside, the Air Force must also accept its fair share of
the blame since highly trained and well-paid Air Force Intelligence,
Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) specialists are heavily
involved with counterterrorism operations.

(B2431) wrote:

From: George Ruch


Mike Marron wrote:

(B2431) wrote:

I didn't say a word to you yet you felt the need to say this?

Just thought you should know that this ain't your hometown VFW hall
where old farts like you and Kramer/Autocollimator sit around getting
older and older and better and better.

Jealous because you don't qualify?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BFD.

As Art said, Where were you and what did you do?

George Ruch
MSgt, USAF, Ret.


He was sitting warm and safe at home believing his father's war stories made
him knowledgable about the USAF mission. Do a google search on marron and his
accusations that the USAF was responsible for 9/11.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

That would explain. Sometimes I despair for the human race...

/------------------------------------------------------------\
| George Ruch |
| "Is there life in Clovis after Clovis Man?" |
\------------------------------------------------------------/

On 3/1/04 9:01 AM, in article ,
"Mike Marron" wrote:

... the Air Force must also accept its fair share of
the blame since highly trained and well-paid Air Force Intelligence,
Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) specialists are heavily
involved with counterterrorism operations.

There was no lack of information available to the agencies which had the
direct responsibility for enforcement and apprehension. They simply failed
to follow through on what they already knew.

The USAF has no culpability such as you describe.

Perhaps you should retire to the shop and fiddle with greasy parts.
Disassembly must be your strong point.



Jack
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

George Ruch wrote:

That would explain. Sometimes I despair for the human race...

Obviously I struck a nerve, huh? Maybe the bartend down at your local
VFW hall will lend ya his shoulder to cry on...