I'm not a real Pilot?

Judah writes:

As, by your definition, do Pen Pals, or people who talk on the telephone, or
people who send EMail.

If those are their only social outlets, then yes, it does seem a bit
constraining.

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Judah writes:

Then apparently, you don't take interest in flight.

You take interest in avionics.

I'm interested in both, and so both must be available. I wouldn't be
interested in flying an aircraft without a decent set of avionics, nor would I
be interested in just the avionics in an aircraft that stays on the ground.

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Maxwell writes:

Can I ever relate to that. I can remember many cross country flights where
we often had to grab a little altitude from time to time, to cross power
lines and sometimes even fences. The lower and slower, the more real it
seems to become.

And the more it violates the FARs.

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"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com writes:

I'm not aware of anyone in that catagory. Not to say that there isn't, but
would seem to be the exception.

If they are having trouble making the rent, as some are, they can't really
afford to fly.

Yes.

With what money?

He already has his own airplane.

How did he pay for it?

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On Mar 31, 1:12 pm, "Maxwell" wrote:
"Walt" wrote in message
I once flew in an ultralight one August evening near Decorah, Iowa (my
daughter was going to Luther College at the time). Flying at near
treetop level in perfectly still air, taking in the sights and smells
of the woods and fields (and having the occasional bug smash into the
face mask of my helmet) it was, in my book, as close to pure flight as
I've gotten. And, while I don't have nearly the experience of many
people on this list, I've flown stuff from KC-135's to gliders.

Nothing compares to real life, my friend.

Can I ever relate to that. I can remember many cross country flights where
we often had to grab a little altitude from time to time, to cross power
lines and sometimes even fences. The lower and slower, the more real it
seems to become.

I have also had the opportunity on a few occasions to fly with the hawks. At
one of our hang gliding locations, it was not at all uncommon to either
follow or be followed, up and down the ridge line, by hawks often coming
within 50' of your wing tips.

But it doesn't take the fun out of GA either.

Thanks for refreshing the memories.

My pleasure. I fly a glider around the Bridger Mountains, which is one
of the biggest raptor breeding areas in the lower 48. I've spent many
a time trying desperately to work a thermal near Ross Peak, only to
look off my left wing and see a hawk flying formation with me, looking
me over, with a look in his eyes like, "You're hopeless. Not worth my
time". And then he'd start soaring above me and I'd be stuck still
working the same thermal.

OTOH, there was one time when I was flying a 1-26 out of Kelly Air
Park in Colorado, desperately looking for lift a few miles west of the
airport. I spotted five or six hawks working what looked like pretty
good lift not far from me, so I flew over there and managed to work a
pretty good thermal for a couple thousand feet. I thanked the hawks
profusely.

Then the thermal gave out and the hawks started flying further west. I
thought, "Hey, I'll follow the hawks and they'll find another thermal
for me".

Unfortunately they flew about a half-mile and landed in a pine tree to
rest. I wound up doing my one and only (up to present day) landout.

Not a big deal, although I had to buy the beer for the guys who came
to retrieve me and the 1-26. The rancher thought it was cool.

:)

I agree about GA. Taking off, early morning, easy flight in the Archer
down to Driggs, Idaho for breakfast with ten or so other airplanes
tagging along, easy conversation on 122.75 while flying up the Madison
River valley to Raynolds Pass, the retired airline pilot in the
perfectly restored Waco complaining because he has to take a leak,
then landing in Driggs and having breakfast at the Warbirds Cafe.

Fun time. You really can't put a price on that sort of thing.

I could tell the story about flying my daughter and one of her friends
to Powell, Wyoming to visit another kid they met at summer camp in the
Beartooths, but you're probably already almost falling asleep reading
this.

Bottom line: because of the trip to Powell there are two 17-year-old
girls taking flying lessons. That's the essence of GA, IMHO.

Enough.
--Walt
Bozeman

"Judah" wrote in message
.. .
Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Judah writes:

I don't hear anyone saying that about piloting either. To say that
would be as extreme as saying that one must be wealthy in order to fly.
Neither is accurate.

Many people here have said "you can fly if you really want to," the
implication being that if you are not willing to make heroic sacrifices
to fly, you don't deserve to be a pilot. If you aren't willing to take
out a second mortgage to pay for your lessons, you haven't got the Right
Stuff. If you aren't willing to undergo half a million dollars' worth
of tests to prove that you deserve a medical, you're not worthy to slip
the surly bonds of Earth. If you aren't willing to spend every
available waking hour studying or taking lessons, you're just not
serious about flying. All of this demonstrates a pretty extreme
viewpoint to me.

No one has implied anything of the sort. We simply have indicated that if
one
were interested in learning to fly, one could do so even without being
wealthy. There is no heroic sacrifice required, and no pilot that I know
spent every waking hour studying or taking lessons. In fact most pilots
learn
by taking at most a lesson or two a week, and usually far fewer.

You yourself posted an estimate that it would cost $17,000 to learn to
fly.
In my local area, it's closer to $10,000, and I suspect one could do it in
a
lower-cost neighborhood for as low as $6,000.

This cost would be spread out over a year or two even without financing
(since you typically pay as you go). With financing, it could be spread
out
over a 5-7 year period. Even using your numbers, then, $17,000 over 60
months
at a 7% interest rate comes to $337/month. Using mine, $10,000 over 60
months
at 6% would be $193/month.

That's less than $7/day.

Certainly, these amounts are achievable for most people who might desire
to
learn to fly, even someone who makes $30,000/yr. For someone who earns
$30,000/yr, there may be other priorities besides flying, and he may
choose
to spend his money elsewhere. Certainly that is understandable.

But the belief that one must be wealthy in order to learn to fly is a
falacy.
One must merely be willing to spend the money.

I don't see why any hobby should be accessible only to the most extreme
fanatics. Why is it unacceptable to be moderately interested in
aviation, and yet still have a life outside of flying?

One need not be an extreme fanatic to access the hobby of flying. One may
be
moderately interested, and choose to fly only when he has funds available.
He
might start off by spending just $50 to take an introductory lesson - he
might even do the same at several flight schools within a reasonable
distance
to explore different types of aircrafts and different types of training.
Then, if he was able to save a few hundred dollars, he might go and take a
lesson or two. Hopefully, he would be able to save up a few hundred
dollars
more than once in his lifetime.

As I said before, it could cost as low as $7/day. I know people who spend
that smoking cigarrettes, and certainly the benefits of flying far
outweigh
the benefits of cigarrettes.


You're right of coarse, but it's not about money with MX. He could spring
for two or three lessons and more than quadrouple his grip on aviation. We
proabably just have to wait until his is old enough to take lessons, and
converse with adults.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Maxwell writes:

Can I ever relate to that. I can remember many cross country flights
where
we often had to grab a little altitude from time to time, to cross power
lines and sometimes even fences. The lower and slower, the more real it
seems to become.

And the more it violates the FARs.


Oh really, which ones?

"Walt" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 31, 1:12 pm, "Maxwell" wrote:
"Walt" wrote in message
I once flew in an ultralight one August evening near Decorah, Iowa (my
daughter was going to Luther College at the time). Flying at near
treetop level in perfectly still air, taking in the sights and smells
of the woods and fields (and having the occasional bug smash into the
face mask of my helmet) it was, in my book, as close to pure flight as
I've gotten. And, while I don't have nearly the experience of many
people on this list, I've flown stuff from KC-135's to gliders.

Nothing compares to real life, my friend.

Can I ever relate to that. I can remember many cross country flights
where
we often had to grab a little altitude from time to time, to cross power
lines and sometimes even fences. The lower and slower, the more real it
seems to become.

I have also had the opportunity on a few occasions to fly with the hawks.
At
one of our hang gliding locations, it was not at all uncommon to either
follow or be followed, up and down the ridge line, by hawks often coming
within 50' of your wing tips.

But it doesn't take the fun out of GA either.

Thanks for refreshing the memories.

My pleasure. I fly a glider around the Bridger Mountains, which is one
of the biggest raptor breeding areas in the lower 48. I've spent many
a time trying desperately to work a thermal near Ross Peak, only to
look off my left wing and see a hawk flying formation with me, looking
me over, with a look in his eyes like, "You're hopeless. Not worth my
time". And then he'd start soaring above me and I'd be stuck still
working the same thermal.

OTOH, there was one time when I was flying a 1-26 out of Kelly Air
Park in Colorado, desperately looking for lift a few miles west of the
airport. I spotted five or six hawks working what looked like pretty
good lift not far from me, so I flew over there and managed to work a
pretty good thermal for a couple thousand feet. I thanked the hawks
profusely.

Then the thermal gave out and the hawks started flying further west. I
thought, "Hey, I'll follow the hawks and they'll find another thermal
for me".

Unfortunately they flew about a half-mile and landed in a pine tree to
rest. I wound up doing my one and only (up to present day) landout.

Not a big deal, although I had to buy the beer for the guys who came
to retrieve me and the 1-26. The rancher thought it was cool.

:)

I agree about GA. Taking off, early morning, easy flight in the Archer
down to Driggs, Idaho for breakfast with ten or so other airplanes
tagging along, easy conversation on 122.75 while flying up the Madison
River valley to Raynolds Pass, the retired airline pilot in the
perfectly restored Waco complaining because he has to take a leak,
then landing in Driggs and having breakfast at the Warbirds Cafe.

Fun time. You really can't put a price on that sort of thing.

I could tell the story about flying my daughter and one of her friends
to Powell, Wyoming to visit another kid they met at summer camp in the
Beartooths, but you're probably already almost falling asleep reading
this.

Bottom line: because of the trip to Powell there are two 17-year-old
girls taking flying lessons. That's the essence of GA, IMHO.

Enough.
--Walt
Bozeman


No, I can relate. Many memories myself. It's all great stuff.

One of my favorites was featured in Hang Glider magazine back in the 70's. A
man by the name of Nealy was flying HGs around the Chattanoga TN area, and
was also a falconer. He had a pet hawk that rode on his own special perch
and would cast off and fly with him. Dropping back in occasionally to reset
next to Nealy on the HG.

Maxwell writes:

Oh really, which ones?

91.119

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On Apr 1, 5:02 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Judah writes:
Actually, there are avenues available that allow even people who have failed
a medical to pilot an aircraft. Ultralights, for example.

An ultralight is not an aircraft in my book. A simulator is closer to the
real thing.

Oh ?
Since you have never flown the 'real' thing on what do you base that
claim.?
Ultralights and microlights are aircraft and require as much skill to
fly as any other aircraft