GA headed for regulatory trouble

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On 05 Jul 2005 15:45:52 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote in ::

How about returning things to normal, and NOT allowing the relatively
small number of terrorists in this world dictate how we live our lives?

Has my vote.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

We can't really focus on the average. I think they do just fine. They
process the consequences of their actions and prepare appropriately.
(I still believe the average pilot is a pretty sharp individual)
Again, even technically capable individuals with a poor attitude are
problematic.
The biggest stink incursion was with a plane knowingly going close to
camp David and the ADIZ who basically got in trouble because they were
yielding a little extra room to be sure they would avoid camp David.
That isn't pilotage or dead reckoning. That is just "feeling your way
around". Perfectly acceptable in North Dakota (or Iowa). It takes a
significant attitude problem to head towards an ADIZ and "feel" around
when a $100 non-aviation GPS would keep you out of the headlines when
you weren't exactly sure where you were.


Mike

Jay Honeck wrote:
To fly in an area where loss of situational awareness can cause
evacuation of the White House (or worse), not using every navigational
tool at our disposal is potentially foolhardy.

Oh, Jay, that's just silly.

If there's GPS in the airplane, sure, turn it on and use it. But if your
rental does -not- have a GPS, then electing not to fly in the DC area
because of this would indicate to me a lack of confidence in one's flying
skills that requires more training, whether to build the skills, or to
build the confidence.


I agree 100%. But are you willing to bet that the casual weekend pilot has
the navigational savvy to ded reckon his way around the ADIZ?

I don't. I flew in the ADIZ a few weeks ago, and there aren't very many
identifiable landmarks (until, of course, you see the Washington Monument,
by which time it's too late!) to use, especially in the evening haze. I was
damned glad to have that big ol' color map to follow.

Could I have done it with just a sectional? Sure! Hell, from Frederick, I
could have just set a course and a stop watch, and probably flown straight
to Dulles International without ever looking inside the plane. Unless, of
course, I had to deviate for weather (there was plenty in the area), or was
vectored by ATC. Suddenly my ded reckoning skills might have been taxed
beyond my abilities.

GPS makes that sort of thing a complete non-event, and costs less than a
tank of gas.

Again, if you're going to bet the farm on flying inside of an ADIZ, I think
you're foolish to leave GPS on the ground before you go.

Only "evidence" that I can sight (because I don't know the details of most of the incursions) is the big one with the student and older guy in the 150.

1: "cite"

2: I don't think this case was an example of an "I don't need no
stinking whiz bang GPS" attitude. He just (presumably) flew without a
GPS. That's different from the attitude I am referring to.

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

The biggest stink incursion was with a plane knowingly going close to camp David and the ADIZ who basically got in trouble because they were yielding a little extra room to be sure they would avoid camp David. That isn't pilotage or dead reckoning. That is just "feeling your way around".

Fine. Don't "feel your way around" the ADIZ. GPS isn't the only
alternative. Pilotage works too. Look out the stinkin' window!

But if you do have a GPS, it's certainly worth using in the area. I'm
not saying one should not use all the tools, I'm saying one should not
allow ones other tools to atrophy by relying on the latest and greatest
electron dance.

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

I don't think F-16 are necessary. The Phalanx guns I imagine to be
strategically placed around the White House and Pentagon should be quite
effective against a King Air.

Right. So the military shoot down authorization is unnecessary;
eliminate it.

I believe that the ground-based defense systems will require a shoot down
authorization, not just the airborne assets.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
I believe that the ground-based defense systems will require a shoot down
authorization, not just the airborne assets.

Probably. But in that case, the imagined Phalanx guns would be no more
effective that the F-16s.

Do the cracks extend to the pilots too? From AOPA:

Most older aircraft have developed cracks in some structures because of
the natural aging process. Although certification authorities in some
other countries will ground aircraft with any cracks, the United States
has taken the more reasonable position of determining if the crack poses
any threat to safety.

I thought it was fairly well-established that ATF wanted more funding and
intended to use the Waco incident to display its prowess and justify an
increase in money. That's why the raid was so well publicized from the
outset. They could have taken Koresh into custody during his visits to
town, but they wanted something more dramatic. And they got it.

Then, when it escalated to the point where the Attorney General was, er,
calling the shots, they needed a weak-kneed, spineless Army General to
allow use of US military hardware against civilians in this country. Funny
how Wesley Clark's career took off after that.

Ruby Ridge was a absolute horror. That was a set-up by the government from
the word go. They were going to use a fuel-air bomb on that family. This
is why reasonable people are afraid of government, especially when people
like the Clintons are running things.


"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well, George, this is now the third (?) time you've refuted my
assertion
without resorting to facts.

So, let's hear 'em. What made the "nutcases" at Waco and Ruby Ridge
so
noble, in your view?

http://www.hardylaw.net/waco.html

This webpage is supposed to make me think the Branch Davidians were NOT
nutcases?

Let's see. In the course of the FBI assault, David Koresh has been
shot in the groin, "the bullet blasting a 1-inch wide hole through his
pelvis" yet -- instead of surrendering immediately to the 100 or so FBI
agents that have surrounded his compound -- he's busily "writing his
explanation of the Seven Seals" while stalling a negotiator on the
phone?

Um, Matt, do *you* think that's a wise thing to do after hundreds of
rounds have been fired in a skirmish with law enforcement officials?

It becomes evident, from all the non-government reports, that surrender
was
not going to be allowed.

You know, Jay, I remember other times in hisotry when tyrants wanted to
suppress a minority, they villified and demonized them. Every indication
demonstrates the real nutcases where the guys with the badges.

Being a bit nutty is not illegal; murder from behind a badge still is.

I don't know about you, but I'd be face down on the floor, politely
asking the men with the helmets and guns to fetch me a doctor and my
attorney.

You really need a clue as to what went on.

Read ALL the stuff, including the continuing links, an take the blinders
off
and stop being so damn gullible.


Here, this is for you.
--
"At a time when our entire country
is banding together and facing down
individualism, the Patriots set a wonderful
example, showing us all what is possible
when we work together, believe
in each other, and sacrifice for the
greater good." -
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY, D-MASS., in a statement read
onto the Congressional Record, praising the New
England Patriots and declaring us all to be in
an American war against individualism. --
Quoted in America's 1st Freedom magazine, April, 2002

I fly into and out of the ADIZ several times a day five days a week. i
have seen the blackhawks and F-16s up close but they were after someone
else. ;-)
Michelle

Larry Dighera wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 00:13:48 GMT, Michelle P
wrote in
.net::



Flying the ADIZ is simple. File, talk, squawk.



Oh, you forgot the important part: If you should happen to
accidentally stumble into the DC ADIZ, you are subject to your
government's military hardware intentionally shooting you down in the
name of security.

"Skywise" wrote in message
...
Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On 05 Jul 2005 15:45:52 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote in ::

How about returning things to normal, and NOT allowing the relatively
small number of terrorists in this world dictate how we live our lives?

Has my vote.

And fight the battle on their turf, not ours.