Methods for altitude changes

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
writes:

You're demonstrating that you've never been in a real
plane, nor even in a good simulator ("good" meaning
one that simulates control pressure).

Some people here have only been in one type of aircraft, and mistakenly
believe that all aircraft are the same.

Anyway, if you're trimmed for a very slow
airspeed, (high AoA, nose-up pitch) you'll
absolutely know it. You'll know it by the sloppy
feel of the controls, the sound the plane makes,
and your airspeed indicator. Likewise, if you're
trimmed for a very high airspeed, you'll know
it by the stiff controls, the sound, and the
airspeed indicator.

In some aircraft, yes. But I wouldn't trust that in all aircraft.


How would you know, you can find your fat ass with both hands just reading
the regs.

"Mxsmanic" wrote ...


Well, you really go to great lengths to demonstrate your stupidity. I wonder
why?

Let me recall the context of my question, which you cut out:

There are several ways to implement an autopilot. But no autopilot is
designed to relieve control pressures.

What do you think this one does?

"The FCCs also operate together to provide the automatic pitch trim
function. The FCCs sense torque on the primary pitch servo and generate
arm
and command signals to drive the pitch trim servo or external trim
control
system."

Then you answer with:


It maintains altitude.


Your answer is
a) out of context,
b) erroneous, being seriously incomplete,
c) demonstrates an attitude of trying to use convenient part-truths to
argument your viewpoint even when it has already lost. A not unknown
debating tactic, but useless nevertheless.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:25:02 GMT, wrote:

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Snowbird writes:

I can see you have actually begun to learn something about autopilots. There
is more to the story, though. Would you believe some autopilots act on both
the control surface and the trim device?

There are several ways to implement an autopilot. But no autopilot is
designed to relieve control pressures.

Another true but worthless statement.

Hmm... Is it a true statement though? The King autopilots (and the
S-Tec range AFAIK) both are designed such that they use pitch servos
to reposition the control surface (elevator or stabilator) to affect
a change (climb, descent) and have inbuilt feedback generators to tell
the trim servo to actuate such that it removes the load from the
surface at its new position. That seems to be at least two systems
who's basic design incorporates a methodology to actively relieve
control pressures.

In rec.aviation.piloting Just go look it up! wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:25:02 GMT, wrote:

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Snowbird writes:

I can see you have actually begun to learn something about autopilots. There
is more to the story, though. Would you believe some autopilots act on both
the control surface and the trim device?

There are several ways to implement an autopilot. But no autopilot is
designed to relieve control pressures.

Another true but worthless statement.

Hmm... Is it a true statement though? The King autopilots (and the
S-Tec range AFAIK) both are designed such that they use pitch servos
to reposition the control surface (elevator or stabilator) to affect
a change (climb, descent) and have inbuilt feedback generators to tell
the trim servo to actuate such that it removes the load from the
surface at its new position. That seems to be at least two systems
who's basic design incorporates a methodology to actively relieve
control pressures.

You are being realistic and practical in your interpretation.

He is being a pendantic, semantic game playing, asshole in he's interpretation.

Strictly, he is correct.

Autopilots are designed to control aircraft.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:25:04 GMT, wrote:

In rec.aviation.piloting Just go look it up! wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:25:02 GMT, wrote:

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:

There are several ways to implement an autopilot. But no autopilot is
designed to relieve control pressures.

Another true but worthless statement.

Hmm... Is it a true statement though? The King autopilots (and the
S-Tec range AFAIK) both are designed such that they use pitch servos
to reposition the control surface (elevator or stabilator) to affect
a change (climb, descent) and have inbuilt feedback generators to tell
the trim servo to actuate such that it removes the load from the
surface at its new position. That seems to be at least two systems
who's basic design incorporates a methodology to actively relieve
control pressures.

You are being realistic and practical in your interpretation.

He is being a pendantic, semantic game playing, asshole in he's interpretation.


Ah. Yes, he does have the propensity to do that doesn't he. And he
changes the pedantry context even within the thread he's ruining. Like
in this one, yea, autopilots control aircraft but his statement that
"no autopilot is designed to relieve control pressures" in the context
of the subthread could be parsed as "no autopilot is designed (with a
mechanism) to relieve control pressures", rather than the ultimate
design goal of an autopilot system, and he switches back and forth to
suit whichever asinine argument he's proffering at the moment.....

Just go look it up! wrote:
design goal of an autopilot system, and he switches back and forth to
suit whichever asinine argument he's proffering at the moment.....

And everybody sucks it up like a sponge, responding to the troll just like
he wants....

Just go look it up! writes:

Hmm... Is it a true statement though? The King autopilots (and the
S-Tec range AFAIK) both are designed such that they use pitch servos
to reposition the control surface (elevator or stabilator) to affect
a change (climb, descent) and have inbuilt feedback generators to tell
the trim servo to actuate such that it removes the load from the
surface at its new position. That seems to be at least two systems
who's basic design incorporates a methodology to actively relieve
control pressures.

Relieving control pressure is still not the purpose of the autopilot, though.
It merely uses that as a means to an end.

If autopilots were really intended to relieve control pressures, then they
would not hold altitude or heading. Instead, they would act to keep the
controls in whatever position you last put them in, irrespective of altitude
or heading. I don't know of any autopilot that does that. The closest
approach is the control-wheel steering feature of some AFDS systems on large
transport aircraft, but apparently pilots don't use those features very often,
and it's still based on maintaining something other than control pressures.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Snowbird writes:

Autopilots certainly want to trim out control pressure. Think about
what would otherwise happen when you disconnect the autopilot. Duh.

It actually _does_ happen when you disconnect the autopilot, in some
aircraft. The purpose of the autopilot is not to relieve control
pressure, it is to fly the aircraft. In aircraft that use trim for
the autopilot, the aircraft may be stable when you turn the autopilot
off. However, in aircraft that directly manipulate the controls with
the autopilot, the aircraft may suddenly change attitude when the AP
is shut off, if the AP has been compensating for something (such as an
engine failure) while it has been operating. This has caused
accidents.

You have no idea what you're talking about, fjukktard.



Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

All real aircraft have elevator trim.

Not true. Some move the stabilizer instead.

That's stil trim, you moron.


Berti e

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

Assuming you're in straight and level flight,
with constant power setting: when you change
trim, do you adjust the yoke (or joystick)
position to keep things straight and level?

Only if the trim adjustment puts me out of trim. Then I have to hold
the yoke continuously. If I gradually trim correctly, I can apply
less and less pressure to the yoke.

You can't do any of the above.

You can't fly.


Bertie