It was really close...

Chicago's King Daley's assertions notwithstanding, no other city in
America has the concentration of power that presents such an obvious
and inviting target for (another) terrorist attack.

Oh, I disagree very strongly with that. DC is mainly a bunch of
government workers who produce little more than TFRs. New York is the
financial capitol of the world, let alone the United States. New Jersey
probably has more noxious chemicals in one place than anywhere else in
the country. Drop a 747 on MIT (near Boston) and you'll do more damage
to our scientific and engineering leadership than obliterating =all= of
our illustrious capitol.

And don't forget the terror potential of wiping out a random, small town
in Iowa. What small town would feel safe after that?

As with so many things in a democracy, the ADIZ currently in place is
an imperfect compromise between absolute freedom, and absolute
prohibition.

"imperfect" is right. It is very expensive in terms of freedom, and
gives little return in terms of safety.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

The price of freedom is... well... freedom.

Great! That's going in my sayings file.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

"Ted" wrote
I haven't done a weight and balance calculation on a Cessna 150 in a
couple of decades. How much cargo weight remains after putting two
adults in the front seats? is it 6 or 8 pounds?? That wouldn't allow
for a very large bomb. I can see why they decided that the plane
wasn't much of a threat.

The maximum Takeoff Gross Weight limit for a C-150 is a legal limit,
not a physical limit. It is estabilished by the FAA as the maximum
weight that will permit a go-around at the maximum flap setting and
has nothing to do with the maximum weight that the airplane will carry
for takeoff and cruise. In fact, for the C-172, by restricting the
maximum flap setting to 30 degrees instead of 40 degrees, the maximum
Takeoff Gross Weight was raised by 100#.

Bob Moore
ATP CFI

"Ted" wrote in message
nk.net...
Jay Honeck wrote in message ...
Officials Weighed Shooting at Errant Plane
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer 37 minutes ago

Pentagon officials sought to play down the incident, saying the small
plane
was not seen as a serious threat and did not come close to being shot
down.

"The quantity of explosives that you can pack in a little Cessna is not
the
quantity of explosives you see placed in these big truck bombs," Jenkins
said. "In terms of explosives, it probably could not do that much
damage."


They could probably see the two adults sitting in that Cessna 150 as if
flew
merrily along into the restricted zone.
I haven't done a weight and balance calculation on a Cessna 150 in a
couple
of decades. How much cargo weight remains after putting two adults in the
front seats? is it 6 or 8 pounds?? That wouldn't allow for a very large
bomb. I can see why they decided that the plane wasn't much of a threat.


A 150 will fly hundreds of pounds overgross. I would guess 500 pounds over
gross is doable.

Ted wrote:

I haven't done a weight and balance calculation on a Cessna 150 in a couple
of decades.

Neither have I, but I can remember a few items. I weighed 150 pounds back then
and had about 10 pounds worth of flight kit. If I filled the tanks, I could
carry me, the flight kit, and about 180 pounds. That's if I wanted to stay at or
below max gross.

As I recall, however, one of the posters on this group managed to get a 150
airborne at least 200 pounds over max gross (and complained about the lousy
climb rate). If you've got enough runway, that 150 will easily carry two people
and the Davy Crockett round that's been mentioned.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

I bet you will or have done something just as stupid in an airplane.

Give these guys a break. The weren't terrorists, I don't care if they did
violate airspace.


"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message

Officials Weighed Shooting at Errant Plane
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer 37 minutes ago

As a wayward Cessna

What really amazes me is that there will apparently be no certificate
action taken against these two nimrods. Not only did they barge right
into probably the best known restricted/prohibited airspace in the world,
but, according to one of the scrambled F16 pilots, they continued on this
errant course for several minutes while the interceptors were crossing
paths and ejecting flares. What in God's name did they think was going
on? Just how stupid do you have to be?

I agree.

And Honeck (according to his address) flies outta Iowa City, IA and not DC.
I fly out of the middle of nowhere and can't imagine what it is like flying
around the nations capitol.

So I will give these guys the benefit of the doubt. They screwed up, and so
have I.

I can only guess that Honeck and others here never have and never will.

I only wish I, and the rest of us, were as good as you.


"Jay Masino" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
We have restricted areas over our seat of government for very clear and
well-defined reasons, snip
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No we don't.




--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

Aptly put. Too bad most of the real "idiots" (and not the ones who got lost
over DC) on this board won't understand.


"Jose" wrote in message
m...
the airspace is closed, [...] As it should be. There's no particular
reason at this point to let pilots run amok over Washington DC.
Why is this as it should be?
There's a war going on. Precisely why there's no particular reason to let
illegal immigrants run amok into America.

I didn't realize that "pilots" was synonymous with "illegal immigrant". I
guess I'll have to get a new dictionary.

Single engine pilots are not the enemy. Religious zealots are the enemy.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

What are you smoking?

The ramp people working for these "secure" airlines have again and again
shown to be the weak link. The TSA/FAA/et.al. haven't shown that hi-jackings
aren't still possible, only tougher to accomplish.

There is no real security on these big airliners.


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

I don't have a problem with an ADIZ. The problem I have is that
airliners which can carry more explosives than a Ryder truck are
allowed to fly in it, but GA planes are not.

Commercial air carriers have tightened their security to the point
where (I suspect) it would be impossible for a 9/11-style attack to
succeed again using commercial airliners as weapons.

Not to mention the fact that the passengers would immediately and
violently resist, as opposed to the pre-9/11 hands-in-your-lap approach
to a hijacking.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Tue, 17 May 2005 04:25:20 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:

Ted wrote:

I haven't done a weight and balance calculation on a Cessna 150 in a couple
of decades.

Neither have I, but I can remember a few items. I weighed 150 pounds back then
and had about 10 pounds worth of flight kit. If I filled the tanks, I could
carry me, the flight kit, and about 180 pounds. That's if I wanted to stay at or
below max gross.

As I recall, however, one of the posters on this group managed to get a 150
airborne at least 200 pounds over max gross (and complained about the lousy
climb rate). If you've got enough runway, that 150 will easily carry two people
and the Davy Crockett round that's been mentioned.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

Nah... It just means you are from farther South than souther Michigan.
(unless you have a *close* friend along.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com