Straight-ins at uncontrolled airports?

Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

That aside,should you decide some day to learn to fly real
aircraft and you relate to your instructor as you do to pilots here
I'm sure you will get the chance to sample the instruction
techniques of MANY instructors.

Possibly, but one good instructor is worth dozens of bad ones.

Your problem will be is that there are enough good students out there that a
good instructor wouldn't put up with you long.

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Your problem will be is that there are enough good students out there that a
good instructor wouldn't put up with you long.

I'm usually a good student. I won't put up with poor instructors, however.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:31:30 GMT, "Mike Young"
wrote:
Do you mean, unlearn basic airmanship before you can get proficient on
instruments?

We all learn bad habits. Think of the drivers on the road who start
making up their own "rules of the road" :-)) I try to fly with an
instructor at least once a quarter to make sure I'm not getting any
bad habits ingrained.

Scratching my head on that one, Roger. I spent more time in the past two
weeks with my instructor than my wife. No room for bad habits here. (One
good thing about Part 141 CFIs putting in their time for the commercial.
They're mean and ornery at a level they just can't hide, sitting there elbow
to elbow a few hours at a time. As messed up as it sounds, I'm pleased with
that arrangement.)

wrote in message
oups.com...

Of course they do. But the "belong" on final as part of the regular,
expected pattern.


Why only then?



Some of the posters have some reasonable situations for straight-ins.
But if you're flying the usual 4 or 6 banger at the usual speeds, you
are best and safest joining the pattern in the usual, expected manner
to get where you belong. Calling final 10 miles out doesn't cut it.


Why not?



I don't see it often, but a couple times while flying a glider in the
pattern, I had pilots call a long final, and I couldn't even see them
anywhere. Sure, I had the right of way, but.....


What gave you the right-of-way? How did you determine right-of-way was an
issue?

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:27:30 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...

Of course they do. But the "belong" on final as part of the regular,
expected pattern.


Why only then?



Some of the posters have some reasonable situations for straight-ins.
But if you're flying the usual 4 or 6 banger at the usual speeds, you
are best and safest joining the pattern in the usual, expected manner
to get where you belong. Calling final 10 miles out doesn't cut it.


Why not?



I don't see it often, but a couple times while flying a glider in the
pattern, I had pilots call a long final, and I couldn't even see them
anywhere. Sure, I had the right of way, but.....


What gave you the right-of-way? How did you determine right-of-way was an
issue?


OK, let's just forget about right-of-way for a minute. In my view,
and I'm more than happy to accept that this is JUST MY OWN VIEW,
is that it is at best inconsiderate for a pilot to fly an extended
straight-in final that is not required by an instrument approach.

If it's an uncontrolled airport and there are people in the pattern
(meaning it's probably VFR), it would be prudent to join the pattern
on the upwind leg. Arguing about who had the ROW with airplanes is
something lawyers would be doing at the wrongful death hearing.



. On Feb 14, 5:17 pm, Jim wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:27:30 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"





wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...

Of course they do. But the "belong" on final as part of the regular,
expected pattern.

Why only then?

Some of the posters have some reasonable situations for straight-ins.
But if you're flying the usual 4 or 6 banger at the usual speeds, you
are best and safest joining the pattern in the usual, expected manner
to get where you belong. Calling final 10 miles out doesn't cut it.

Why not?

I don't see it often, but a couple times while flying a glider in the
pattern, I had pilots call a long final, and I couldn't even see them
anywhere. Sure, I had the right of way, but.....

What gave you the right-of-way? How did you determine right-of-way was an
issue?

OK, let's just forget about right-of-way for a minute. In my view,
and I'm more than happy to accept that this is JUST MY OWN VIEW,
is that it is at best inconsiderate for a pilot to fly an extended
straight-in final that is not required by an instrument approach.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Feb 14, 4:27 am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...



Of course they do. But the "belong" on final as part of the regular,
expected pattern.

Why only then?



Some of the posters have some reasonable situations for straight-ins.
But if you're flying the usual 4 or 6 banger at the usual speeds, you
are best and safest joining the pattern in the usual, expected manner
to get where you belong. Calling final 10 miles out doesn't cut it.

Why not?



I don't see it often, but a couple times while flying a glider in the
pattern, I had pilots call a long final, and I couldn't even see them
anywhere. Sure, I had the right of way, but.....

What gave you the right-of-way? How did you determine right-of-way was an
issue?

FAR 91.113.
1. In distress, ROW over anything
2. Balloon, ROW over any other category
3. Glider, ROW over airship, powered parachute, airplane, or
rotorcraft
......


The obvious reason at the airport is that a glider can't perform a go-
around; the powered airplane can. Consequently, if a powered aircraft
tries to call a long final while a glider is in the pattern, life can
get interesting unless the glider has an alternate and can get there
safely. It would be most unseemly to call a final and force a glider
into a landout situation.

On Feb 14, 3:34 pm, "Tony" wrote:
If it's an uncontrolled airport and there are people in the pattern
(meaning it's probably VFR), it would be prudent to join the pattern
on the upwind leg. Arguing about who had the ROW with airplanes is
something lawyers would be doing at the wrongful death hearing.



Agreed.
Of course, I wasn't arguing with anybody. I had my eyes glued to the
direction I expected the airplane to come from, while trying not to
get overly worried, because I was a solo glider student and had my
hands full anyway! My point is that there is no way I can just extend
my downwind more than a little bit. I'm landing; the only question is
where.

On 14 Feb 2007 14:34:45 -0800, "Tony" wrote:

If it's an uncontrolled airport and there are people in the pattern
(meaning it's probably VFR), it would be prudent to join the pattern
on the upwind leg. Arguing about who had the ROW with airplanes is
something lawyers would be doing at the wrongful death hearing.

Here in the states the "recommended" entry is on the *down wind*.
As I've said many times, up wind entries scare me as they often cross
the departure path right around where I hit pattern altitude. That
puts us in spots difficult for each other to see.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

The upwind joining gives the approaching airplane a good opportunity
to see the departing traffic -- I think it's a better choice than
flying a long straight in at an uncontrolled airport. I do agree with
you that entering the pattern at about midfield on the downwind is
still better, but my real life objection to that given the model we're
discussing -- an approach to the airport from a long way out along the
extended centerline of the active -- I feel safer arriving near the
airport at pattern altitude, moving off the center line and entering
on the upwind leg. I think it's better to do that in terms of seeing
departing and converging traffic than it is to somehow circle around
to the other side a couple of miles from the runway and fishook into a
45 degree entry leg.

However -- and this is a big one -- if I'm not sure what's going on at
the airport in terms of the active or traffic, I'll not go down to
pattern altitude, but overfly the runway to eyeball the situation,
then turn to what seems to be the downwind side and enter the pattern
on a conventional 45 degree leg to downwind. As it happens, those
circumstances have not presented themselves very often, probably
because the few uncontrolled fields I do fly into are fairly busy and
have active unicoms.



trafficOn Feb 15, 2:52 am, Roger wrote:
On 14 Feb 2007 14:34:45 -0800, "Tony" wrote:

If it's an uncontrolled airport and there are people in the pattern
(meaning it's probably VFR), it would be prudent to join the pattern
on the upwind leg. Arguing about who had the ROW with airplanes is
something lawyers would be doing at the wrongful death hearing.

Here in the states the "recommended" entry is on the *down wind*.
As I've said many times, up wind entries scare me as they often cross
the departure path right around where I hit pattern altitude. That
puts us in spots difficult for each other to see.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)www.rogerhalstead.com