#1 Piston Fighter was British

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Not bizarre at all. Carrying a bombload is the same as "shooitng back" The
ability to harm the enemy is the active criteria.

Carrying a deadly payload counts: do _you_ want to tell the paratroopers
that you don't consider them to be dangerous?


--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...

A lot of British Dakotas had VGO machineguns in the windows - does that
make them combat aircraft?


As did their American counterparts.

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 7/10/03 1:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Not bizarre at all. Carrying a bombload is the same as "shooitng back" The
ability to harm the enemy is the active criteria.

Carrying a deadly payload counts: do _you_ want to tell the paratroopers
that you don't consider them to be dangerous?


--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam

I guess if thos troops got there on bicycles we would have to call the bikes
combat vehlcles. And if a Piper Cub crashes and kills an enemy soldier we have
to designate the Piper Cub as a ground attack aircraft.(sheesh)

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 7/10/03 1:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

A lot of British Dakotas had VGO machineguns in the windows - does that
make them combat aircraft?


Purely defensive. You can't win a war on the defense.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Purely defensive.


What was the reason bombers had guns?

"ArtKramr" wrote

You can't win a war on the defense.

You can't win a war through the air alone, either,
short of nuclear annihilation.

Paratroop transports actually put troops on the ground
who *can* win the war. Ergo, they're more critical,
right?

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 7/10/03 1:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Not bizarre at all. Carrying a bombload is the same as "shooitng back"
The
ability to harm the enemy is the active criteria.

Carrying a deadly payload counts: do _you_ want to tell the paratroopers
that you don't consider them to be dangerous?


--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam

I guess if thos troops got there on bicycles we would have to call the
bikes
combat vehlcles.

Well know we call APC's combat vehicles

And if a Piper Cub crashes and kills an enemy soldier we have
to designate the Piper Cub as a ground attack aircraft.(sheesh)


I'd suggest those pilots in WW2 who flew light aircraft in the
over enemy lines as artillery spotters were very definitely in combat.

Keith

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 7/10/03 1:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:
Carrying a deadly payload counts: do _you_ want to tell the paratroopers
that you don't consider them to be dangerous?
I guess if thos troops got there on bicycles we would have to call the bikes
combat vehlcles.

The Japanese used bicycles to transport troops and did so very, very
effectively in 1942. If you can manoeuvre your force faster than the
enemy, who cares _how_ you do it?

And if a Piper Cub crashes and kills an enemy soldier we have
to designate the Piper Cub as a ground attack aircraft.(sheesh)

I'd call a Piper Cub, or an Auster, doing artillery observation a
"combat aircraft" - the enemy recieving the fire are just as dead.

As is the pilot, if enemy AAA or fighters catch up with him.

If you're taking direct fire from the enemy, you're in combat. Hard to
argue with that definition.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 7/10/03 4:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 7/10/03 1:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:
Carrying a deadly payload counts: do _you_ want to tell the paratroopers
that you don't consider them to be dangerous?
I guess if thos troops got there on bicycles we would have to call the
bikes
combat vehlcles.

The Japanese used bicycles to transport troops and did so very, very
effectively in 1942. If you can manoeuvre your force faster than the
enemy, who cares _how_ you do it?

And if a Piper Cub crashes and kills an enemy soldier we have
to designate the Piper Cub as a ground attack aircraft.(sheesh)

I'd call a Piper Cub, or an Auster, doing artillery observation a
"combat aircraft" - the enemy recieving the fire are just as dead.

As is the pilot, if enemy AAA or fighters catch up with him.

If you're taking direct fire from the enemy, you're in combat. Hard to
argue with that definition.


How do you feel about latrine orderlies?

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: (Harry Andreas)
Date: 7/9/03 2:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

In article ink.net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Transports are not combat aircraft. We led the combat units of the
9th on that morning.

I just watched the PBS show on D-day last night.
It showed fleets of DC-3s carrying paras over occupied France.
Each aircraft full of weapons and combat troops.
I don't know if that makes them combat aircraft, but if I
was in the left seat getting shot at, I'd probably think so.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

Many non combat aircraft get shot at. It is shooting back thay makes them
combat aircraft.

Very true Art, I met a woman who flew in VC10s from Brize at 500ft into
Sarajevo airport with just a 'bone dome' and 'flak jacket' as defence.

To think that once these airliners were used by BOAC and many other civilian
airlines.


Richard.