The new Fork Tailed Doctor Killer

I had an interesting event years ago with an owner of a light twin who took
off from FXE to go to PMP, just after lift off, reach down to pull the gear
up, stopped and said, "you know what, It's only 7 miles to PMP, I'm just
going to leave the gear down". Ok, sounds ok to me. There was a quick call
to PMP, two turns later and we are downwind. He does a GUMPS check and
RETRACTS the gear. I said to myself, this is going to be interesting. He's
trying to slow the airplane down but hasn't put it together that he just got
rid of a lot of drag. He turns final, still over speed, and I ask him to
do another GUMP check and he misses it again. Halfway down final I tell him
to call the tower and tell him we are going around. He does, initiates a go
around procedure and this time, on climb out, realizes the gear is already
up. What a surprise look on his face. So after we got on the ground and
started talking about this, we wondered what it was that he was actually
training himself to do. He was not correlating gear up - take off, gear
down -landing. Nor was he correlating "three green - gear down". All he was
training himself to do was to "flip the switch into the other position". We
talked about using rituals in order to reduce accidents, like when you take
off, bring the gear up, no matter how close the next landing will be. I
also have never heard of one of my students land gear up since I teach 3
checks. 1 full check list before pattern, 2 enter pattern GUMPS list, and 3
short final say "three green".
--
Regards, BobF.
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Roger wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:41:05 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:


And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
This is all true, and leans heavily into the IFR experience for all
airplanes, especially the high performance aircraft.
What I had in mind was much more basic; the getting out there and
practicing with the airplane in the area where a lot of the accidents
actually happen.....basic flying.

Agreed. If the pilot is proficient enough to do the approaches,
holds, and other *stuff* dished out by ATC around the airports (IE
maneuvers under a heavy work load) the cross country part should be
easy.

I would think the majority of accidents occur while maneuvering near
the airports regardless of whether the pilot is flying a Cessna 172 or
a Cirrus SR-22. Things just happen faster and the workload is higher
in the high performance stuff.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Something our human factors accident workgroup came up with early on is
the tie in between accidents and a breakdown in the basics somewhere in
the accident chain .
On the face of this statement, this might seem obvious, but it's amazing
how this link shows up under scrutiny in every accident involving human
factors.

--
Dudley Henriques

Bob F. wrote:
I had an interesting event years ago with an owner of a light twin who
took off from FXE to go to PMP, just after lift off, reach down to pull
the gear up, stopped and said, "you know what, It's only 7 miles to PMP,
I'm just going to leave the gear down". Ok, sounds ok to me. There was
a quick call to PMP, two turns later and we are downwind. He does a
GUMPS check and RETRACTS the gear. I said to myself, this is going to
be interesting. He's trying to slow the airplane down but hasn't put it
together that he just got rid of a lot of drag. He turns final, still
over speed, and I ask him to do another GUMP check and he misses it
again. Halfway down final I tell him to call the tower and tell him we
are going around. He does, initiates a go around procedure and this
time, on climb out, realizes the gear is already up. What a surprise
look on his face. So after we got on the ground and started talking
about this, we wondered what it was that he was actually training
himself to do. He was not correlating gear up - take off, gear down
-landing. Nor was he correlating "three green - gear down". All he was
training himself to do was to "flip the switch into the other
position". We talked about using rituals in order to reduce accidents,
like when you take off, bring the gear up, no matter how close the next
landing will be. I also have never heard of one of my students land
gear up since I teach 3 checks. 1 full check list before pattern, 2
enter pattern GUMPS list, and 3 short final say "three green".

I do the same, and did so for years while instructing. Many gear up
accidents are caused by the go around scenario where the gear cycle gets
reversed. I've always taught that a go around means a complete clean up
of the airplane, then a recheck of the prelanding checklist. I also
agree on the triple check. I suggest a final GUMPS check performed by a
verbal touch, identify, and verify method immediately after the base to
final turn.
There's nothing better to keep you in good health in the aviation
business than a good solid no changes allowed habit pattern!!

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bob F. wrote:
I had an interesting event years ago with an owner of a light twin
who took off from FXE to go to PMP, just after lift off, reach down
to pull the gear up, stopped and said, "you know what, It's only 7
miles to PMP, I'm just going to leave the gear down". Ok, sounds ok
to me. There was a quick call to PMP, two turns later and we are
downwind. He does a GUMPS check and RETRACTS the gear. I said to
myself, this is going to be interesting. He's trying to slow the
airplane down but hasn't put it together that he just got rid of a
lot of drag. He turns final, still over speed, and I ask him to do
another GUMP check and he misses it again. Halfway down final I tell
him to call the tower and tell him we are going around. He does,
initiates a go around procedure and this time, on climb out, realizes
the gear is already up. What a surprise look on his face. So after
we got on the ground and started talking about this, we wondered what
it was that he was actually training himself to do. He was not
correlating gear up - take off, gear down -landing. Nor was he
correlating "three green - gear down". All he was training himself
to do was to "flip the switch into the other position". We talked
about using rituals in order to reduce accidents, like when you take
off, bring the gear up, no matter how close the next landing will be.
I also have never heard of one of my students land gear up since I
teach 3 checks. 1 full check list before pattern, 2 enter pattern
GUMPS list, and 3 short final say "three green".

I do the same, and did so for years while instructing. Many gear up
accidents are caused by the go around scenario where the gear cycle
gets reversed. I've always taught that a go around means a complete
clean up of the airplane, then a recheck of the prelanding checklist.
I also agree on the triple check. I suggest a final GUMPS check
performed by a verbal touch, identify, and verify method immediately
after the base to final turn.
There's nothing better to keep you in good health in the aviation
business than a good solid no changes allowed habit pattern!!



Hmm. My own view of it is that at any given moment, you're screwing
somethng up. If there's a mistake to be made, you're going to make it.
That means looking around for the error and double checking double
checking and double checking again. Assuming that your habits will
protect you just never worked for me. I'm not saying you shouldn't have
them, far from it, I'm just saying the best safety net I've discovered
for myself is that of a heft suspicion that ATC, the company, Boeing,
the FO and myself especially, are all conspiring to kill me.


Bertie

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:27:01 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:41:05 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:


And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
This is all true, and leans heavily into the IFR experience for all
airplanes, especially the high performance aircraft.
What I had in mind was much more basic; the getting out there and
practicing with the airplane in the area where a lot of the accidents
actually happen.....basic flying.

Agreed. If the pilot is proficient enough to do the approaches,
holds, and other *stuff* dished out by ATC around the airports (IE
maneuvers under a heavy work load) the cross country part should be
easy.

I would think the majority of accidents occur while maneuvering near
the airports regardless of whether the pilot is flying a Cessna 172 or
a Cirrus SR-22. Things just happen faster and the workload is higher
in the high performance stuff.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Something our human factors accident workgroup came up with early on is
the tie in between accidents and a breakdown in the basics somewhere in
the accident chain .
On the face of this statement, this might seem obvious, but it's
amazing how this link shows up under scrutiny in every accident
involving human factors.

On a few occasions I've had instructors push me to my limits and even
to the breaking point. Not as a primary student, but flying
instruments and flight reviews. These came about when I did
particularly well. On a review it was "Hey! Let's keep going for a
while if it's OK with you" after we'd done everything.

One was while working on my instrument rating when I was ready to go
take the PTS. We spent 2 1/2 hours partial panel doing timed turns to
a heading, timed climbing and descending turns to a heading AND
altitude, Timed climbing and descending turns (at constant airspeeds)
to intercept radials or courses inbound and outbound. All of this
was done using one nav (VOR or ADF) and one com and as I said, partial
panel.
Oh, one step down hold to the approach over an NDB and one VOR entered
from a hold and these included the published missed. That sounds
like a lot to do in 2 1/2 hours but this stuff was combined and we
went directly from one to the next. The only real breather was after
the missed on the NDB I had about 6 minutes to rest up before the VOR
hold course reversal.:-)) No way could I do that today.

Given the proper conditions be they physical, psychological, flight
conditions, or aircraft we can all reach out limits sooner or later
and these limits can vary widely. Hitting mental overload is a very
humbling experience and I think a good experience as well if done
under controlled conditions. Like the "vertigo chair", none of us are
completely immune. :-))

I was rung out after that one but I was still flying OK.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mar 21, 12:18*pm, Roger wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:58:38 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
What puzzles me is not the decision to take off, but rather the low
climb rate and the decision to use runway 27. If the weather resembled
what was reported nearby at OKV, runway 9 would have had a negligible
tailwind component.

Probably the same reason after all these years of using tools I stuck
my thumb in a table saw a little over a month ago. *Up 16 hours,
something on his mind, decision making capabilities gone out the
window. *

Yeah, probably so. Sad.

Sorry 'bout the thumb.

On Mar 21, 11:51 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I do the same, and did so for years while instructing. Many gear up
accidents are caused by the go around scenario where the gear cycle gets
reversed. I've always taught that a go around means a complete clean up
of the airplane, then a recheck of the prelanding checklist. I also
agree on the triple check. I suggest a final GUMPS check performed by a
verbal touch, identify, and verify method immediately after the base to
final turn.
There's nothing better to keep you in good health in the aviation
business than a good solid no changes allowed habit pattern!!

--
Dudley Henriques

A good habit that was drilled into me during my Comm work was to
extend gear first. No flaps unless gear down was confirmed.

The reasoning in that with full flaps and 13" MAP the descent profile
is close enough to full flaps + gear down, and the gear horn would be
the only remaining safeguard.

Another was the have gear down upon pattern entry. This forces
airspeed control prior to pattern entry (helps maintain the discipline
to be at Pattern altitude prior to pattern entry as well), provides
more time to confirm "gear down and locked" and results in 3 full
GUMPS checks -- downwind midfield, abeam the numbers, on base, on
final.

The layout in the A36 helps this, as the gear switch is on the other
side of the monstrous yoke.

In the air: Start right before left. (some use the term "Flip the down
switch")

On the ground: Don't reach to that side.

The Straight 35 has the Piano key controls. I thought that would make
it far too easy to confuse things, but what it does is force me to
point, say, and do.


Dan Mc

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bob F. wrote:
I had an interesting event years ago with an owner of a light twin
who took off from FXE to go to PMP, just after lift off, reach down
to pull the gear up, stopped and said, "you know what, It's only 7
miles to PMP, I'm just going to leave the gear down". Ok, sounds ok
to me. There was a quick call to PMP, two turns later and we are
downwind. He does a GUMPS check and RETRACTS the gear. I said to
myself, this is going to be interesting. He's trying to slow the
airplane down but hasn't put it together that he just got rid of a
lot of drag. He turns final, still over speed, and I ask him to do
another GUMP check and he misses it again. Halfway down final I tell
him to call the tower and tell him we are going around. He does,
initiates a go around procedure and this time, on climb out, realizes
the gear is already up. What a surprise look on his face. So after
we got on the ground and started talking about this, we wondered what
it was that he was actually training himself to do. He was not
correlating gear up - take off, gear down -landing. Nor was he
correlating "three green - gear down". All he was training himself
to do was to "flip the switch into the other position". We talked
about using rituals in order to reduce accidents, like when you take
off, bring the gear up, no matter how close the next landing will be.
I also have never heard of one of my students land gear up since I
teach 3 checks. 1 full check list before pattern, 2 enter pattern
GUMPS list, and 3 short final say "three green".
I do the same, and did so for years while instructing. Many gear up
accidents are caused by the go around scenario where the gear cycle
gets reversed. I've always taught that a go around means a complete
clean up of the airplane, then a recheck of the prelanding checklist.
I also agree on the triple check. I suggest a final GUMPS check
performed by a verbal touch, identify, and verify method immediately
after the base to final turn.
There's nothing better to keep you in good health in the aviation
business than a good solid no changes allowed habit pattern!!



Hmm. My own view of it is that at any given moment, you're screwing
somethng up. If there's a mistake to be made, you're going to make it.
That means looking around for the error and double checking double
checking and double checking again. Assuming that your habits will
protect you just never worked for me. I'm not saying you shouldn't have
them, far from it, I'm just saying the best safety net I've discovered
for myself is that of a heft suspicion that ATC, the company, Boeing,
the FO and myself especially, are all conspiring to kill me.


Bertie

Basically no conflict here. Knowing when to think defensively is
entirely cohesive with the existence of good habit patterns in a pilot.



--
Dudley Henriques

Dan wrote:
On Mar 21, 11:51 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I do the same, and did so for years while instructing. Many gear up
accidents are caused by the go around scenario where the gear cycle gets
reversed. I've always taught that a go around means a complete clean up
of the airplane, then a recheck of the prelanding checklist. I also
agree on the triple check. I suggest a final GUMPS check performed by a
verbal touch, identify, and verify method immediately after the base to
final turn.
There's nothing better to keep you in good health in the aviation
business than a good solid no changes allowed habit pattern!!

--
Dudley Henriques

A good habit that was drilled into me during my Comm work was to
extend gear first. No flaps unless gear down was confirmed.

The reasoning in that with full flaps and 13" MAP the descent profile
is close enough to full flaps + gear down, and the gear horn would be
the only remaining safeguard.

Another was the have gear down upon pattern entry. This forces
airspeed control prior to pattern entry (helps maintain the discipline
to be at Pattern altitude prior to pattern entry as well), provides
more time to confirm "gear down and locked" and results in 3 full
GUMPS checks -- downwind midfield, abeam the numbers, on base, on
final.

The layout in the A36 helps this, as the gear switch is on the other
side of the monstrous yoke.

In the air: Start right before left. (some use the term "Flip the down
switch")

On the ground: Don't reach to that side.

The Straight 35 has the Piano key controls. I thought that would make
it far too easy to confuse things, but what it does is force me to
point, say, and do.


Dan Mc







What gets confusing to new pilots sometimes is that flying requires both
structure and the ability to think and act freely. The operating
environment is dynamic and as such is constantly changing. This is the
very essence of a multi-task environment.
Good structure and habit patterns are the tools that take the "edge" off
the potential overload and allow the pilot some room to think.
When you are operating within the area where your thinking process is
ahead of the required tasks, you are competent at that moment in time.

I view the establishment of solid habit patterns in a pilot as one of
the most prime responsibilities of a flight instructor.

--
Dudley Henriques

Roger wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:27:01 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:41:05 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
This is all true, and leans heavily into the IFR experience for all
airplanes, especially the high performance aircraft.
What I had in mind was much more basic; the getting out there and
practicing with the airplane in the area where a lot of the accidents
actually happen.....basic flying.
Agreed. If the pilot is proficient enough to do the approaches,
holds, and other *stuff* dished out by ATC around the airports (IE
maneuvers under a heavy work load) the cross country part should be
easy.

I would think the majority of accidents occur while maneuvering near
the airports regardless of whether the pilot is flying a Cessna 172 or
a Cirrus SR-22. Things just happen faster and the workload is higher
in the high performance stuff.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Something our human factors accident workgroup came up with early on is
the tie in between accidents and a breakdown in the basics somewhere in
the accident chain .
On the face of this statement, this might seem obvious, but it's
amazing how this link shows up under scrutiny in every accident
involving human factors.

On a few occasions I've had instructors push me to my limits and even
to the breaking point. Not as a primary student, but flying
instruments and flight reviews. These came about when I did
particularly well. On a review it was "Hey! Let's keep going for a
while if it's OK with you" after we'd done everything.

One was while working on my instrument rating when I was ready to go
take the PTS. We spent 2 1/2 hours partial panel doing timed turns to
a heading, timed climbing and descending turns to a heading AND
altitude, Timed climbing and descending turns (at constant airspeeds)
to intercept radials or courses inbound and outbound. All of this
was done using one nav (VOR or ADF) and one com and as I said, partial
panel.
Oh, one step down hold to the approach over an NDB and one VOR entered
from a hold and these included the published missed. That sounds
like a lot to do in 2 1/2 hours but this stuff was combined and we
went directly from one to the next. The only real breather was after
the missed on the NDB I had about 6 minutes to rest up before the VOR
hold course reversal.:-)) No way could I do that today.

Given the proper conditions be they physical, psychological, flight
conditions, or aircraft we can all reach out limits sooner or later
and these limits can vary widely. Hitting mental overload is a very
humbling experience and I think a good experience as well if done
under controlled conditions. Like the "vertigo chair", none of us are
completely immune. :-))

I was rung out after that one but I was still flying OK.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

In effect, this is what all of us do as pilots.
Every time we fly, we operate in a world of changing personal limits. At
any moment in time, based on literally hundreds of factors, we will
either be ahead or behind the airplane we are flying.
This constantly changing dynamic is the very essence of the human
factors issue in flying.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in news:n-
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bob F. wrote:
I had an interesting event years ago with an owner of a light twin
who took off from FXE to go to PMP, just after lift off, reach down
to pull the gear up, stopped and said, "you know what, It's only 7
miles to PMP, I'm just going to leave the gear down". Ok, sounds
ok
to me. There was a quick call to PMP, two turns later and we are
downwind. He does a GUMPS check and RETRACTS the gear. I said to
myself, this is going to be interesting. He's trying to slow the
airplane down but hasn't put it together that he just got rid of a
lot of drag. He turns final, still over speed, and I ask him to
do
another GUMP check and he misses it again. Halfway down final I
tell
him to call the tower and tell him we are going around. He does,
initiates a go around procedure and this time, on climb out,
realizes
the gear is already up. What a surprise look on his face. So
after
we got on the ground and started talking about this, we wondered
what
it was that he was actually training himself to do. He was not
correlating gear up - take off, gear down -landing. Nor was he
correlating "three green - gear down". All he was training himself
to do was to "flip the switch into the other position". We talked
about using rituals in order to reduce accidents, like when you
take
off, bring the gear up, no matter how close the next landing will
be.
I also have never heard of one of my students land gear up since I
teach 3 checks. 1 full check list before pattern, 2 enter pattern
GUMPS list, and 3 short final say "three green".
I do the same, and did so for years while instructing. Many gear up
accidents are caused by the go around scenario where the gear cycle
gets reversed. I've always taught that a go around means a complete
clean up of the airplane, then a recheck of the prelanding
checklist.
I also agree on the triple check. I suggest a final GUMPS check
performed by a verbal touch, identify, and verify method immediately
after the base to final turn.
There's nothing better to keep you in good health in the aviation
business than a good solid no changes allowed habit pattern!!



Hmm. My own view of it is that at any given moment, you're screwing
somethng up. If there's a mistake to be made, you're going to make
it.
That means looking around for the error and double checking double
checking and double checking again. Assuming that your habits will
protect you just never worked for me. I'm not saying you shouldn't
have
them, far from it, I'm just saying the best safety net I've
discovered
for myself is that of a heft suspicion that ATC, the company, Boeing,
the FO and myself especially, are all conspiring to kill me.


Bertie

Basically no conflict here.

Oh I meant none, just elaborating using my own "thing"

Knowing when to think defensively is
entirely cohesive with the existence of good habit patterns in a
pilot.


Xactly.

Bertie