How much longer?

cavedweller wrote:
On Apr 9, 12:35 pm, wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:



(Alan) wrote in
:
In article Bertie the
Bunyip writes:
"Mike Isaksen" wrote in
news:KRwKj.1375$XC1.1247 @trndny08:

"Alan" wrote ...
Bertie the Bunyip writes:
I will fly as long as there is air. Gasoline be damned.
I started without it and I'll finish withour if needs be.

You say you started without - how?
Even gliders seem to need tows.

Maybe he'll build an electric motor rope launch skid powered by wind
turbines.

Could do. There's lots of ways you can winch launch. The current world
record distance flight was launched off the back of a car. Probably a
thirty second tow, if that.

I doubt that this was an electric car charged from solar or wind
power,
was it? I'll bet it burned gasoline (or perhaps diesel fuel).

Point is, there's a million ways to skin a cat. If neceesity dictated,
a way would be found.

And your answer is?

Unless you have a better answer, I suggest folks start building
nuclear
power plants, and looking hard at extracting carbon from the
atmosphere to combine with hydrogen from water to produce various
petroleum fuels. We are not prepared to deal with hydrogen -- I can
just imagine the news stories about the result of accidents at
hydrogen fueling stations.

BTW, hydrogen is no real problem in regards to that. It can be used
safely in surface transport and fuelled safely as well. The real problem
with it is making it.

Making hydrogen is not a problem if you don't care about the cost.

The engineering problem for wide spread use is hydrogen embrittlement.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

For instance?

For instance the only existing distribution plumbing that will handle
hydrogen is on liquid hydrogen trucks; you can't run it down existing
gas pipe lines.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:00:34 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

Back during the LAST "energy crisis" in the 1970s, solar collectors sprouted
on rooftops like daisies. Everyone wanted to harness all that "free"
energy.

What we soon discovered, however, is that it was far from free. The thermal
stress on all that black plastic soon reduced the collectors to cracked and
leaky junk -- and it was all ABOVE YOUR HOUSE so that the leaks did the most
harm to your home. Within just a few years, they were gone from the
rooftops, and lots of contractors had prospered fleecing lots of "green"
home owners.

Now, you say, could these not be made more durable today? You bet they
could, but at a cost that would amaze you. And, no matter what you make
plumbing out of, no matter how much money you spend on it, there is one
truism that every long-term property owner knows to be true: Eventually, it
WILL leak.

One day these problems may be overcome. Until then, the natural gas
furnaces and water heaters will continue to be the most efficient choices.

My, you are a dolt.

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 01:40:03 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: Martin Hotze

well, I believe that I am doing OK. One of the next things (in a few
years) will be throwing out the oil out of the house and heat with wood,

Wood heat?
You're really marching into the 21st century, ain't you Marty.
More pollution, greenhouse gasses, and some radioactive isotopes.
Great Idea. And your neighbors are just going to LOVE breathing your
smoke as it settles over the neighborhood.

We've got TWO people, in our neighborhood of abou 200 houses,
who have started heating with wood. The air has become unbreathable
on a cold, still night. 198 households have been quietly discussing how
nice it would be if 2 particular houses burned to the ground. And someone
spray painted the word ASSHOLE on both their garages on New Years Eve.

You're going to be VERY popular.

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Tough guys are usually anonymous. Imagine that.

Waving bye-bye to all!
--
Kyla%b
now deleting entire thread

On Apr 9, 3:05 pm, wrote:
cavedweller wrote:

For instance?

For instance the only existing distribution plumbing that will handle
hydrogen is on liquid hydrogen trucks; you can't run it down existing
gas pipe lines.

--
Jim Pennino

Where does the hydrogen embrittlement part come in?

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:35:50 GMT, Jay Maynard wrote:

http://www.tronguy.net
(Yes, that's me!)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My God!!!

Speaking of Zodiacs

http://tinyurl.com/5u29ms

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote:



Hmm, very good. A bit tainted by his hydrogen info, though, which is a
bit off in spots.

I don't know much about it.

Where's he off about hydrogen?

"Dan Luke" wrote in
m:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote:



Hmm, very good. A bit tainted by his hydrogen info, though, which is
a
bit off in spots.

I don't know much about it.

Where's he off about hydrogen?




Well, he dismisses it pretty much out of hand for all the wrong reasons.
The volume thing is a non-issue with metal hydride tanks as well as the
safety issue. I only mention it because it calls into question the rest
of his article in my mind. If half of what he says about algae based
diesel is true, though, it sounds very promising.
In any case, there are a number of potential sources of fuels that have
recently become cheaper options than petro-chemical fuels. All it takes
now is a little education and a little will to get moving on them.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
The volume thing is a non-issue with metal hydride tanks as well as the
safety issue.

The information I've found on metal hydrides is not nearly so optimistic.
Allegedly about 4 times heavier per unit of energy than gasoline and many
of the known metal hydrides (e.g. lithium) themselves being health hazards.

The engineering problem for wide spread use is hydrogen
embrittlement.



What, from burning it in your engine or from manufacture?

From containing it.

Essentially the same problem as ethenol; existing plumbing won't
handle hydrogen, so if you want to distribute the stuff in anything
other than liquid hydrogen trucks, you need all new pipes designed
to carry hydrogen.

Hydrogen atoms are so small, they will wedge themselves even into the matrix
of solid metal materials. This reduces the ability of the metal atoms to
slide alongside each other, hence the material will break rather than bend
if force is applied - the material becomes brittle.

regards,
Friedrich

On Apr 9, 3:05 pm, wrote:
cavedweller wrote:

The engineering problem for wide spread use is hydrogen embrittlement.

For instance?

For instance the only existing distribution plumbing that will handle
hydrogen is on liquid hydrogen trucks; you can't run it down existing
gas pipe lines.

Hmmmm. I see that I should have asked rather "Of what?" (relative to
hydrogen embrittlement)