Is this the death of GA

"Jay Honeck" wrote in news:%kqxj.377$TT4.91
@attbi_s22:

Don't they bond the aircraft to the fuel container (electrically)?

No.

Don't listen to em Jay. They're probably the same guys who cried about
cigarettes being bad for you and seatbelts "savign lives"

What a crock, huh?

Bertie

Having spent a couple of years as an airport manager I am not
speaking out of ignorance. I'm surprised that you don't seem
to be able see the potential dangers. I strongly suggest that
you and the airport manager have a chat with you local fire
marshal, your fuel supplier and your insurance underwriter before
you continue that activity.

It's not just me doing it -- it's our FBO. And a dozen or more aircraft
owners on our field alone. And at every other field I've ever been at. But
I know that takes the fun out of the discussion.

I'm not saying that the lawyers, insurance companies, professional
hand-wringers, and other lower forms of life won't find "risk" in fueling in
an open hangar. These are the same folks who install audible walk signals,
cancel school when it snows 2 inches, and make regulations that render an
aircraft "unairworthy" when an inherently inaccurate fuel gauge goes tits
up.

I'm saying that it's NOT unsafe, when done by competent people with
professional grade equipment. It's been done for decades, without mishap.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

Now, you're telling me that refueling an airplane from a
professionally-built fuel truck, properly grounded, with the big door
open, is DANGEROUS? I find it hard that anyone so risk averse actually
flies in an airplane. Those things crash, you know.

Having spent a couple of years as an airport manager I am not
speaking out of ignorance. I'm surprised that you don't seem
to be able see the potential dangers. I strongly suggest that
you and the airport manager have a chat with you local fire
marshal, your fuel supplier and your insurance underwriter before
you continue that activity.

It is dangerous to even fuel a lawn mower in your garage because
of the enclosed space, and the risk of a devastating fire in
the even of a fuel spill.

Check with any authority on the subject and see if they don't
tell you the same thing.

Good luck.

Is that a local code? Neither of the A&P's I use have sprinklers,
and they run legit businesses that do major repairs.

As far as I know, NC fire code. Could be that an older building is
grandfathered in, but to build new, there was no doubt that there would
have to be sprinklers.

I've never even *seen* a sprinkler system in a maintenance hangar.

Not once, in Wisconsin or Iowa.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:dFqxj.53176$yE1.9605@attbi_s21:

Having spent a couple of years as an airport manager I am not
speaking out of ignorance. I'm surprised that you don't seem
to be able see the potential dangers. I strongly suggest that
you and the airport manager have a chat with you local fire
marshal, your fuel supplier and your insurance underwriter before
you continue that activity.

It's not just me doing it -- it's our FBO. And a dozen or more
aircraft owners on our field alone. And at every other field I've
ever been at. But I know that takes the fun out of the discussion.

So, you're a liar and an idiot.

And so is your FBO


Bertie

"Jay Honeck" wrote in news:XGqxj.53177$yE1.36379
@attbi_s21:

Is that a local code? Neither of the A&P's I use have sprinklers,
and they run legit businesses that do major repairs.

As far as I know, NC fire code. Could be that an older building is
grandfathered in, but to build new, there was no doubt that there would
have to be sprinklers.

I've never even *seen* a sprinkler system in a maintenance hangar.

So?

Bertie

And pilots need to start DEMANDING a living wage, or just don't fly.
Students need to expect to PAY for training, $100 per hr for an instructor
is not unreasonable. This about how much you would pay any other
professional. How much would you pay a plumber. Then think about how
much you pay a CFI and gripe about it! NUTS.

The part that will always cripple any effort to raise the pay of flight
instructors (and pilots in general) is that flying is *fun*.

The reason lawyers make a lot of money is because being a lawyer sucks. The
reason plumbers make a lot of money is because being a plumber sucks. The
reason flying doesn't pay a lot is because flying is fun, and there are
thousands of us who willingly pay to do it.

I don't see folks lining up to pay $120 per hour to solder pipes, or fill
out paperwork, but there are quite a few of us paying at least that to fly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:VPqxj.53187$yE1.1436@attbi_s21:

And pilots need to start DEMANDING a living wage, or just don't fly.
Students need to expect to PAY for training, $100 per hr for an
instructor is not unreasonable. This about how much you would pay any
other professional. How much would you pay a plumber. Then think
about how much you pay a CFI and gripe about it! NUTS.

The part that will always cripple any effort to raise the pay of
flight instructors (and pilots in general) is that flying is *fun*.

The reason lawyers make a lot of money is because being a lawyer
sucks. The reason plumbers make a lot of money is because being a
plumber sucks. The reason flying doesn't pay a lot is because flying
is fun, and there are thousands of us who willingly pay to do it.

Assholes, like you, for instance. Fortunately,you have nothing to teach
anyone.


Bertie

Jay Honeck wrote:

It's not just me doing it -- it's our FBO. And a dozen or more aircraft
owners on our field alone. And at every other field I've ever been at. But
I know that takes the fun out of the discussion.

I'm not saying that the lawyers, insurance companies, professional
hand-wringers, and other lower forms of life won't find "risk" in fueling in
an open hangar. These are the same folks who install audible walk signals,
cancel school when it snows 2 inches, and make regulations that render an
aircraft "unairworthy" when an inherently inaccurate fuel gauge goes tits
up.

I'm saying that it's NOT unsafe, when done by competent people with
professional grade equipment. It's been done for decades, without mishap.

To paraphrase every mom that ever lived, so if all your friends are
doing something stupid, its OK for you to do it too?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

"Bob F." wrote in message
. ..
In case you haven't noticed, the death of aviation has already occurred.
It
happened with all the law suits, rising cost of gas prices and scab CFI's
that will fly for nothing. I've been in the industry for over 45 years.
They say there is a lot of money in aviation. I know that because I put a
lot of it in there! I am appalled that you can't make a decent living in
the industry. Oh yes, there are a few souls that have made it, but it's
like the lotto, not a planned definite process. I can't believe that I
have spent so much time and money in the industry and can't make it there.
In what other industry can you invest almost $100k in training and
experience achieve, what is called "the PhD of Aviation, the ATP", all the
CFI's offered by the FAA and still can't command more then minimum wags??
The AOPA, FAA, NAFI and defunct organizations such as NPA, etc have all
fallen down on the job, BIG TIME. All useless to foster the community. I
go into a flight school and immediately get the feeling that "I don't want
to be here". You do not feel welcome! All these managers need serious
marketing and business education. And pilots need to start DEMANDING a
living wage, or just don't fly. Students need to expect to PAY for
training, $100 per hr for an instructor is not unreasonable. This about
how much you would pay any other professional. How much would you pay a
plumber. Then think about how much you pay a CFI and gripe about it!
NUTS.

--
BobF.
Lincoln actually got it right but was way ahead of his time when he said,
"You can have some of you computer working all of the time and all of your
computer working some of the time but..." It was he that said that,
wasn't it?

While the ATP can cost a lot of money to obtain, a CFI is not the same. I
see ads for CFI training for 3000.00 That being said, I too agree that CFI
are way underpaid. I don't think that should be paid on the scale of a
lawyer or a plumber but rather on a teacher scale, somewhere between 40-100k
If the industry wants to attract qualified committed people, they need to
make the teachers pay something that they can live on or else they will have
the issues they have now where instructors are just building hours to move
on.

John

"John" wrote in
news:EZrxj.6720$xg6.539@trnddc07:


"Bob F." wrote in message
. ..
In case you haven't noticed, the death of aviation has already
occurred. It
happened with all the law suits, rising cost of gas prices and scab
CFI's that will fly for nothing. I've been in the industry for over
45 years. They say there is a lot of money in aviation. I know that
because I put a lot of it in there! I am appalled that you can't
make a decent living in the industry. Oh yes, there are a few souls
that have made it, but it's like the lotto, not a planned definite
process. I can't believe that I have spent so much time and money in
the industry and can't make it there. In what other industry can you
invest almost $100k in training and experience achieve, what is
called "the PhD of Aviation, the ATP", all the CFI's offered by the
FAA and still can't command more then minimum wags?? The AOPA, FAA,
NAFI and defunct organizations such as NPA, etc have all fallen down
on the job, BIG TIME. All useless to foster the community. I go
into a flight school and immediately get the feeling that "I don't
want to be here". You do not feel welcome! All these managers need
serious marketing and business education. And pilots need to start
DEMANDING a living wage, or just don't fly. Students need to expect
to PAY for training, $100 per hr for an instructor is not
unreasonable. This about how much you would pay any other
professional. How much would you pay a plumber. Then think about
how much you pay a CFI and gripe about it! NUTS.

--
BobF.
Lincoln actually got it right but was way ahead of his time when he
said, "You can have some of you computer working all of the time and
all of your computer working some of the time but..." It was he that
said that, wasn't it?

While the ATP can cost a lot of money to obtain,

It can, but needn't. I took the written (free, and maybe twenty bucks
for the study guide) and just booked and took th eflight test, which
consisted of about three hours rental of a twin. No instruction..
You can't use it til you have th ehours and if you've been flying for a
living it should be easy..





Bertie