Katrina fall-out

Jay,
Can't we also say the same is true for the misguided souls who live in
trailer parks in the Midwest? What bright official deemed these things
livable? We don't call them tornado magnets for nothing. Most people in the
country would consider the kid with the big ears playing the banjo on
"Deliverance" to be smarter than people who live in trailers in the Midwest.
Then we have the folks out west that just insist on living where fires
will burn their homes up , or the threat of it , year after year. And there
are the mudslide folks, who just love dropping in on their neighbors..so to
speak. And yep the Let's build my home on the earthquake fault gang!
HMMMMMMM.... think about it, where will we all live ? In pretty much
every part of the country where you build your home, it has it's own little
disaster waiting to happen. You think people in the west and southeast are
strupid for having the threat of hurricanes and earthquakes, and people in
other parts of the country think midwesterners are stupid for living in
Tornado Alley. But we all have to live somewhere. Just have to pick our
"rathers".

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:K7XRe.323186$xm3.141266@attbi_s21...
How many people have to tell these dumb asses to GET THE HELL OUT OF
DODGE
when there is a Level 5 hurricane bearing down on them, before they
actually
listen?

You might better direct your anger towards a federal government that had
all
the same warnings, all the same information (and probably more), and yet
has
STILL not taken control of the situation, FOUR DAYS after disaster
struck.

Shoot, Jay, when even the collective might of the United States military
and
its assorted agencies are running around with their thumbs up their asses
several days after the fact, is it really appropriate to express outrage
at
the victims who are suffering most?

The Feds must be invited by the governor of any state before they can
react -- period. This is NOT a Federal Government thing until it becomes
apparent that the State cannot handle things.

I am not angry about the situation -- I am incredulous. It's an awful,
horrible mess, and the entire country is going to pay a bitter price for
the stupidity and arrogance of a relative few, starting with:

1. People who thought it was okay to live 20 feet below sea level, next to
an ocean.
2. Government officials who allowed stupid people to build 20 feet below
sea level, next to an ocean.
3. Environmental activists who, through their actions, have left our
country economically ravaged by the loss of a few lousy oil refineries.
4. Able bodied "victims" who, on national TV, shout their anger and
contempt because the "Gubmint" hasn't done enough.
5. Armed gangs of "victims" who are shooting at rescue helicopters.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Stop blaming the federal government!
That's why this mess is so bad in the first place.

If the Federal Government is supposed to have so little involvement,
what's the point of Louisiana being a state of the United States? What's
the point of all those Louisianans income tax that goes to the Federal
government? (the vast majority of their income taxes?)

As a previous posted noted, the federal government cannot come in unless
asked or martial law is declared.
States rights is basic tenant of the US Constitution.

I wonder if the insurance companies (and the federal government) will
FINALLY wake up to the fact that building permanent structures below
sea-level in a hurricane zone is folly?

It is time for the federal government to tell local and state
governments that federal tax dollars will no longer be spent to rebuild
in areas like coastal plains (flooding, storm surge), river valleys
(flooding), earthquake faults (self explanatory), unstable hillsides
(mud slides), etc., which are zoned residential.

Dylan Smith wrote:

On 2005-09-02, john smith wrote:

Stop blaming the federal government!
That's why this mess is so bad in the first place.

snip

If the Federal Government is supposed to have so little involvement,
what's the point of Louisiana being a state of the United States? What's
the point of all those Louisianans income tax that goes to the Federal
government? (the vast majority of their income taxes?)

My state tax bill is about 40% of my federal bill and if you add the
property tax I pay the state it more like 60% state 40% fed. Local
goverment should be providing more of the service in the front end and
the feds come in afterwards but I'm seeing a lack of pre-planning on the
local parts and now they are throwing up thier hands and saying Feds
come save us. Just as others have said that the storm warning was too
short for people to leave, it's the same problem for the feds. It's not
a wise usage of scarce resources to mobilize the number of people and
equipment that this is going to take on the basis of a storm that MIGHT
grow and MIGHT hit a populated area until your fairly sure where and
when it will hit. That would have been around Friday or Saturday last
week. Now could they have done a better job? Probable so, but there
are a lot of people going as fast as they can to provide aid and
unfortunately it takes some time. It's not very good for the people
that are stuck in NO. I would imagine that on the local level all
across the country that have poor and unable to prepare populations, the
local disaster prep people are looking at thier abilty to evacuate the
poor and barring evacuation how will they feed and house them for the
several days to a week that it will take to bring things in from out of
the area. I seem to recall that in the cold war days they build bomb
shelters and stocked with with supplies on the local level and those
could be used in the event of a natural disaster was well. Perhaps it's
time to try that again.

The truth of the matter is that there is no safe place on earth. Each area
has their own disaster waiting to happen. A few years ago we had the ice
storm in Canada that cut power to Quebec and Ontario, for a couple of months
in some cases, in the middle of winter.

The southern east coast has hurricanes and the west coast, California up to
Alaska, has earthquakes, take your pick.

We do what we can to prepare if we think about it, but most do not. Society
is now too dependant on the govt to help in times of need. Time and
unforseen occurance befall us all.

Andre

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:X9XRe.82236$084.46538@attbi_s22...
Next: The end of the west coast, since it is in an earthquake area.
Imagine Silicon Valley vanishing in a major quake...

Silicon Valley is another perfect example of human arrogance.

Hey -- wait -- I've got it! Let's build a 100 billion dollar
infrastructure on top of a major fault line!

And when (not if) it is destroyed, there will be people begging the
Federal
Government to come rebuild it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Dylan Smith opined

On 2005-09-02, john smith wrote:
Stop blaming the federal government!
That's why this mess is so bad in the first place.
snip

If the Federal Government is supposed to have so little involvement,
what's the point of Louisiana being a state of the United States? What's
the point of all those Louisianans income tax that goes to the Federal
government? (the vast majority of their income taxes?)

Good question. As a rule, it costs a state over a dollar in taxes to get a
dollar of federal benefits.


-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article , Martin Hotze

wrote:

I am not arguing (right now) about your engagement in Iraq ... I am
arguing
why you don't make it happen to bring thousands of soldiers in to New
Orleans. the first few days are important, not some days after the first
couple days passed.

1) Equipment and personnel are already enroute. (some are already
there)

Already? Get real, it is 5 days after the hurricane and they knew it was
coming several days before that. A full week after they should have been
called up for mobilization they are just now beginning to move.

2) The US military isn't forward deployed to the US.

The National Guard is and they have yet to arrive in any quantity.

3) Disaster recovery isn't a military mission (nor should it be)

Disaster asistance is a National Guard function yet except for a few that
have been deployed they appear to be sitting at home eating bon bons.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Philip S. wrote:
in article , john smith at
wrote on 9/1/05 8:21 PM:


Philip S. wrote:

You might better direct your anger towards a federal government that
had all
the same warnings, all the same information (and probably more), and
yet has
STILL not taken control of the situation, FOUR DAYS after disaster
struck.
Shoot, Jay, when even the collective might of the United States
military and
its assorted agencies are running around with their thumbs up their
asses
several days after the fact, is it really appropriate to express
outrage at
the victims who are suffering most?

Stop blaming the federal government!
That's why this mess is so bad in the first place.
State and local governments have become so dependent upon the federal
programs, they cannot think, let alone act on their on.
The City of New Orleans did nothing until the last minute.
The State of Louisana did nothing until after the fact.
The federal government is trying to play catch up.
The City of New Orleans knew what the consequences were.
The State of Lousiana certainly had some idea of the consequences based
on their oversight authority.
Both these government entities dragged their heels waiting for Uncle Sam
to come to their rescue before the fact. The only thing Uncle Sam knew
was that it was going to be bad.


Terrorist attack or natural disaster, it really makes no difference--the
current administration ran for re-election less than a year ago on the
premise that they could keep us all safe, that they were better than
their
opponents on issues of "homeland security", that when it came to
protecting
the homeland, only they could do the job.

How do you propose that the Feds stop a hurricane? Put up a tall fence?
Protecting the homeland from a hurricane. That is hilarious...

Matt

Homeland Security is leaving because it is "too dangerous." The Feds knew
Katrina was on the way a week ago but they have yet to provide any
significant assistance.

Jay Honeck opined

Regardless of why people stayed in NO, they are there and we need to help
them. They have lost literally everything they have. Pointing our fingers
at
the vicitms right now is not helping.

And help them we shall.

No one is pointing fingers at the victims -- we're discussing the stupidity
of man on an aviation newsgroup.

Those two actions are not mutually exclusive, by the way. We can help
rebuild *and* admonish. In fact, in large degree, that's the history of
mankind, and (sadly) the only way we humans ever seem to learn anything.

while (Federal Flood Insurance)
{
Step One: Build house on beach
Step Two: Watch house swallowed by sea.
Step Three: Rebuild?
}

At some point the revelation must come, no?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"




-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

On 2005-09-02, Bob Noel wrote:
hopefully those agencies with important files have a disaster recovery
plan for their records (a concept that has been in place for decades)

Sadly, many small businesses simply don't have any kind of disaster
recovery plans nor any offsite backup facility (and if they have offsite
backups, it's only of digital information not paperwork, and is probably
located in the same city)

Most of these businesses are history.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"