CRJ crash at KLEX:

"John Gaquin" wrote:


"john smith" wrote in message news:jsmith-

The diagram has not been updated to show the newly added 600 foot
extension and connecting taxiway.

Quite the opposite, I think.

James is correct. FAA diagram he

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

Current aerial shot showing the new extension and taxiway is he

http://www.wcpo.com/specials/2006/5191/

Scroll through "The photos"

Ron Lee

James Robinson wrote:
Some guy wrote:
Isn't checking the heading indicator to to make sure you're on the
right runway was a standard checkoff list type of a thing?

Have you never been on a commercial aircraft where the engines are spooling
up as the aircraft turns onto the runway? Do you really think they have
cross-checked with the compass at that point?

The heading indicator responds faster than the compass (and if it's not
already slaved, one would hope it was set before they even thought about
taking the runway).

In article ,
(Ron Lee) wrote:

James is correct. FAA diagram he

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

This diagram does not show the extension.
Look at Google Earth and the angle that the taxiway makes with the
runway 22 approach end. The 90-degree intersection is south of the
threshhold.

john smith wrote:

In article ,
(Ron Lee) wrote:

James is correct. FAA diagram he

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

This diagram does not show the extension.
Look at Google Earth and the angle that the taxiway makes with the
runway 22 approach end. The 90-degree intersection is south of the
threshhold.

John, James wrote "The diagram doesn't show the additional taxiway
that is apparent in the photographs."

My post confirmed his statement. Please look at the info that has
been provided.

Ron Lee

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Ron Lee) wrote:

James is correct. FAA diagram he

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

This diagram does not show the extension.
Look at Google Earth and the angle that the taxiway makes with the
runway 22 approach end. The 90-degree intersection is south of the
threshhold.

Google Earth photos of KLEX date from 2003...

Jay B

john smith wrote:

In article ,
James Robinson wrote:

(Ron Lee) wrote:

"Aluckyguess" wrote:

Looking at that diagram I see how easy it would of been to do what
they did. WOW


Here's a diagram dated 08/03/2006:



Don't agree with you Barry. They should have seen that you taxi
rightish from the terminal past Rwy 26 then either one (apparently
from pics) of two taxiways to Rwy 22. Even I can do that.

The diagram doesn't show the additional taxiway that is apparent in
the photographs

News reports quote another pilot as saying that old right-hand
taxiway had a recently-erected barrier across it. He said it was a
complete surprise when he came across it the first time.

The diagram has not been updated to show the newly added 600 foot
extension and connecting taxiway.

Here is a link to a diagram of the changes that were made:

http://tinyurl.com/zybuf

Here is a link to a photo of the old arrangement from Yahoo maps:

http://tinyurl.com/qknmg

As you can see, A-8 would take you to the end of runway 26, and A-7 would
take you 500 feet from the end of the runway.

Looking at the diagram in the above link, plus recent news pictures, the
changes have not extended the runway at the north end, but have in fact
diplaced the threshold by 400 feet or so. With the displaced threshold,
the old taxiway A-8 has been closed, and therefore doesn't show on the
diagram referenced in the earlier post.

These aren't super clear, but you can see how the runway has been
repainted to reflect the displaced threshold:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/...lane/ntsb2.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/h99og

Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

john smith wrote:

Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

I don't know from personal experience, but the news reports on the day of
the accident included the following quote:

" The construction changes momentarily confused veteran pilot Lowell Wiley
two days before the Comair crash. He nosed his plane down the same taxiway
that he had taken for years until hitting a barricade.

"It was a total surprise," said Wiley, who adjusted course and got onto the
correct runway. He now understands why the Comair pilot might have headed
down a runway 1,500 feet (450 meters) too short to make a proper takeoff. "

James Robinson wrote:

john smith wrote:

Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

I don't know from personal experience, but the news reports on the day of
the accident included the following quote:

" The construction changes momentarily confused veteran pilot Lowell Wiley
two days before the Comair crash. He nosed his plane down the same taxiway
that he had taken for years until hitting a barricade.

"It was a total surprise," said Wiley, who adjusted course and got onto the
correct runway. He now understands why the Comair pilot might have headed
down a runway 1,500 feet (450 meters) too short to make a proper takeoff. "

That comment does not make sense. To get to Rwy 22 you must cross Rwy
26 totally. Whether you take Taxiway A7 or A8 seems irrelevant. If
you are stopped after crossing Rwy 26 by a barricade on A8, why would
you think, "OK, let's forget Rwy 26 and just use this one"?

Ron Lee

Tom2000 wrote
Can any transport pilots expound on your takeoff procedures? Is it
SOP to do something explict when you're checking your takeoff heading?

This Expanded Checklist from my 'old' 1970s PanAm B-707 Operations
Manual. This configuration check is the final portion of the
takeoff checklist and challenged when lined-up on the runway.

TAKEOFF
Configuration Check The First Officer passes the checklist to the
flight engineer at this point.The flight engineer
will announce "Configuration Check" and will
challenge the pilots on items that follow.
The Captain will respond to all items and
additionally the first officer will respond to
the stabilizer trim and compass items.

Antiskid.......ON The captain will check that the ANTI-SKID switch
is ON, guard down. The flight engineer will
visually check that no releases are showing in the
antiskid BRAKES window.

Speedbrake..FORWARD Check that the speedbrake is in the foreward zero
detent.

Stabilizer Trim.... Both pilots will declare stabilizer settings and
cross check.

Wing Flaps......... Declare handle setting and gage indications, and
( ),INDICATE ( ), check both LE FLAP lights green.
GREEN LIGHTS

Compasses...CHECKED Both pilots will cross check compasses against
takeoff-runway heading.

TAKEOFF CHECKLIST IS The flight engineer verifies that all Takeoff
COMPLETE checklist items have been completed.


Bob Moore
ATP B-707 B-727 L-188
PanAm (retired)