The new Fork Tailed Doctor Killer

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Patty of course flies a bevy of mounts. Her personal plane is an
Extra 300S. It's got a Lycoming modified to 350hp and a roll rate of
420 degrees/sec.
Patty works out constantly and is probably in the same shape as an
Olympic athlete. She's also flying Jim Beasley's Mustangs.
...and she's pretty too!!! :-))



You'd have to be in good shape for that. I've been doing a bit in
anticipation of the arrival of the Citabria (now pushed back yet
another month because of the crap Wx in PA) Just watching those red
bull guys gives me a hedache.


Bertie

We have several Red Bull Pilots in the workgroup. I'm with you. These
guys are redefining flying as we knew it.
What are they doing to the Citabria..fabric or engine work or both?
The weather's beginning to break in Pa. if that helps any.

Yeah, the guy doing it wasn't able for the weather, he's very old. And
you can't paint in sub zero temps.
It's a complete rebuild. I didn't have time to do it so I got a friend
who owns an airport to do it for me. It'll be a virtually new airplane
when it's done. It's a KCAB so it will be a good sport machine.
Actually, I have a query for you. My understanding is that the aerobatic
category requires a load of +5/-3 and my memeory of the airplane is that
is what it was rated for, but I just bought a flight manual for it that
says +5 and -2, but it says the airplane is aerobatic. The new ones seem
to be the same, so presumably it was always that way. Any idea?


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Patty of course flies a bevy of mounts. Her personal plane is an
Extra 300S. It's got a Lycoming modified to 350hp and a roll rate of
420 degrees/sec.
Patty works out constantly and is probably in the same shape as an
Olympic athlete. She's also flying Jim Beasley's Mustangs.
...and she's pretty too!!! :-))


You'd have to be in good shape for that. I've been doing a bit in
anticipation of the arrival of the Citabria (now pushed back yet
another month because of the crap Wx in PA) Just watching those red
bull guys gives me a hedache.


Bertie
We have several Red Bull Pilots in the workgroup. I'm with you. These
guys are redefining flying as we knew it.
What are they doing to the Citabria..fabric or engine work or both?
The weather's beginning to break in Pa. if that helps any.

Yeah, the guy doing it wasn't able for the weather, he's very old. And
you can't paint in sub zero temps.
It's a complete rebuild. I didn't have time to do it so I got a friend
who owns an airport to do it for me. It'll be a virtually new airplane
when it's done. It's a KCAB so it will be a good sport machine.
Actually, I have a query for you. My understanding is that the aerobatic
category requires a load of +5/-3 and my memeory of the airplane is that
is what it was rated for, but I just bought a flight manual for it that
says +5 and -2, but it says the airplane is aerobatic. The new ones seem
to be the same, so presumably it was always that way. Any idea?


Bertie

Actually, if the airplane is a production model the limits for full
aerobatic category are +6 and -3.
My understanding on the Citabria at +5 -2 I believe had something to do
with the wood spars. Also, the Citabria is licenced as a production
airplane with a Limited Aerobatic Category rating at +5 and -2. The
Decathlon has a FULL Aerobatic rating at 6/3.


I've never actually looked it up but the full details are probably in
FAR's 21 and/or 23.

I haven't had much to do with Citabria's for quite a while so my
information might need a bit of updating :-)


--
Dudley Henriques

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...19X00332&key=1 is out

Departed runway 27, VFR, midnight, in marginal condition. According
to http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0802/NE3TO.PDF, IFR departure procedure
off runway 27 is N/A due to obstacles.

I bet if the pilot had read anything on http://www.terps.com (the very
first article, no less) he probably wouldn't have taken the odds he
took. What a shame, killing himself and his son.


On Mar 17, 4:48 am, Denny wrote:
Time moves along... The old V-tails are no longer the status symbol...
It appears to me that the Cirrus line of aircraft has become the new
"fork taileddoctorkiller", along with stock broker, dentist, lawyer,
etc...

http://tinyurl.com/yqt94a

denny

Dudley Henriques wrote in
news
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Patty of course flies a bevy of mounts. Her personal plane is an
Extra 300S. It's got a Lycoming modified to 350hp and a roll rate
of 420 degrees/sec.
Patty works out constantly and is probably in the same shape as an
Olympic athlete. She's also flying Jim Beasley's Mustangs.
...and she's pretty too!!! :-))


You'd have to be in good shape for that. I've been doing a bit in
anticipation of the arrival of the Citabria (now pushed back yet
another month because of the crap Wx in PA) Just watching those red
bull guys gives me a hedache.


Bertie
We have several Red Bull Pilots in the workgroup. I'm with you.
These guys are redefining flying as we knew it.
What are they doing to the Citabria..fabric or engine work or both?
The weather's beginning to break in Pa. if that helps any.

Yeah, the guy doing it wasn't able for the weather, he's very old.
And you can't paint in sub zero temps.
It's a complete rebuild. I didn't have time to do it so I got a
friend who owns an airport to do it for me. It'll be a virtually new
airplane when it's done. It's a KCAB so it will be a good sport
machine. Actually, I have a query for you. My understanding is that
the aerobatic category requires a load of +5/-3 and my memeory of the
airplane is that is what it was rated for, but I just bought a flight
manual for it that says +5 and -2, but it says the airplane is
aerobatic. The new ones seem to be the same, so presumably it was
always that way. Any idea?


Bertie

Actually, if the airplane is a production model the limits for full
aerobatic category are +6 and -3.
My understanding on the Citabria at +5 -2 I believe had something to
do with the wood spars. Also, the Citabria is licenced as a production
airplane with a Limited Aerobatic Category rating at +5 and -2. The
Decathlon has a FULL Aerobatic rating at 6/3.

So, was it changed at some time in the recent past?

I've never actually looked it up but the full details are probably in
FAR's 21 and/or 23.

I haven't had much to do with Citabria's for quite a while so my
information might need a bit of updating :-)

Me too. It's pretty obvious that it has always had limited aerobatic
capability. that;'s just the kind of airplane it is. But I don't
remember the G restriction on it. Maybe it's a concession due to the
spar AD.
Our's has wood spars, which I prefer anyway, but they're new and STC'd
with several mods provided by a guy in Oregon who has thickend them up
in both thickness and height. and they have improved, feathered, doubler
plates, so the psar issues should be no problem with this airplane. Also
there will be only three of us flying it so it shouldn't get any knocks
that we don;t know about.


Bertie

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:37:06 -0700 (PDT), Dan
wrote:

On Mar 21, 11:51 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I do the same, and did so for years while instructing. Many gear up
accidents are caused by the go around scenario where the gear cycle gets
reversed. I've always taught that a go around means a complete clean up
of the airplane, then a recheck of the prelanding checklist. I also
agree on the triple check. I suggest a final GUMPS check performed by a
verbal touch, identify, and verify method immediately after the base to
final turn.
There's nothing better to keep you in good health in the aviation
business than a good solid no changes allowed habit pattern!!

--
Dudley Henriques

A good habit that was drilled into me during my Comm work was to
extend gear first. No flaps unless gear down was confirmed.

That's a given in the Deb as Gear down is 140 MPH while full flaps is
only 120.


The reasoning in that with full flaps and 13" MAP the descent profile
is close enough to full flaps + gear down, and the gear horn would be

In the Deb they are quite different. First you have a devil of a
time getting more than partial flaps without the gear down and with
the gear up it floats forever.

the only remaining safeguard.

Another was the have gear down upon pattern entry. This forces
airspeed control prior to pattern entry (helps maintain the discipline
to be at Pattern altitude prior to pattern entry as well), provides
more time to confirm "gear down and locked" and results in 3 full
GUMPS checks -- downwind midfield, abeam the numbers, on base, on
final.

I try to make each pattern different. If the pattern is empty I may
hit it fast enough I need to use the turn to down wind to slow enough
to get the gear down. I fly tight patterns with base nothing more
than a slipping U-turn to the end of the runway. The next one may be a
short field followed by a simulated power out from some where on down
wind and not always close enough to make the runway., or a no flap
landing. I use about every variation you can think of including long
wide patterns to allow for a string of students. That way there
really is nothing different for me whether I need to make that tight
U-turn or fly s-turns behind a caravan of trainers. OTOH if there's
one guy 2 miles out and hasn't turned base yet I'm more than likely
to make that U-turn (after clearly stating my intentions ) and be
clear the runway before he is ready to make his base to final turn.
The Caveat is to never do this if there is any likely hood of it
interfering with any other traffic. OTOH some pilots get all bent out
of shape if everyone doesn't dutifully stay in line following a Cub
flying a base 3 or 4 miles out.

If it's a quite day I may shoot the GPS for 06 ,or 24 which is
essentially a straight in or do a long final holding the speed up as
long as possible. I don't know how many times I've had ATC ask me to
keep the speed up as long as practicable.

The pilot always has the option of saying "unable" to ATC's
out-of-the-ordinary requests, but the down side is you may end up
circling in no man's land far longer than you wish waiting for a
string of airliners to land. You may not hear that "cleared to land
until they see a 10 minute gap in traffic to allow for the perceived
lack of ability to fit in.




The layout in the A36 helps this, as the gear switch is on the other
side of the monstrous yoke.

In the air: Start right before left. (some use the term "Flip the down
switch")

On the ground: Don't reach to that side.

The Straight 35 has the Piano key controls. I thought that would make
it far too easy to confuse things, but what it does is force me to
point, say, and do.

That is my litany followed by verification and I have regular switches
in the Deb.


Dan Mc





Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Mar 21, 12:18*pm, Roger wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:58:38 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
What puzzles me is not the decision to take off, but rather the low
climb rate and the decision to use runway 27. If the weather resembled
what was reported nearby at OKV, runway 9 would have had a negligible
tailwind component.

Probably the same reason after all these years of using tools I stuck
my thumb in a table saw a little over a month ago. *Up 16 hours,
something on his mind, decision making capabilities gone out the
window. *

Yeah, probably so. Sad.

Sorry 'bout the thumb.

Me too, but it's healing nicely... Looks healed, but still tender so
I still keep a bandaid on it for protection.

The thumb isn't nearly the problem of flying into the side of a
mountain:-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote

Probably the same reason after all these years of using tools I stuck
my thumb in a table saw a little over a month ago. Up 16 hours,
something on his mind, decision making capabilities gone out the
window.

BTW, the thumb is healing nicely but the thumb print will never be the
same and being "just a tad sensitive" I seem to keep poking things
with it.

BT,DT!

Might I suggest the most basic safety practice; keep the blade no higher
than necessary to cut the wood.

Also, there is a rule that says once you hit your finger with a hammer, or
cut it with a saw, you WILL hit it on everything nearby, as often as is
possible. Seen it many times. DONE it many times! g
--
Jim in NC

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

So, was it changed at some time in the recent past?

To my knowledge, the Citabria's certification hasn't changed since the
initial FAA certification tests.


Me too. It's pretty obvious that it has always had limited aerobatic
capability. that;'s just the kind of airplane it is. But I don't
remember the G restriction on it. Maybe it's a concession due to the
spar AD.

The g restriction actually IS the limited aerobatic cert. 6/3 is the
full category, and the Citabria is reduced to 5/2 which defines the
limited category.



Our's has wood spars, which I prefer anyway, but they're new and STC'd
with several mods provided by a guy in Oregon who has thickend them up
in both thickness and height. and they have improved, feathered, doubler
plates, so the psar issues should be no problem with this airplane. Also
there will be only three of us flying it so it shouldn't get any knocks
that we don;t know about.

Sounds like a good setup. Just tell everybody to get the nose well up
before rolling it and you'll keep the nose low rolling pullouts with
that added g under control :-))


Bertie


--
Dudley Henriques

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:14:01 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Roger" wrote

Probably the same reason after all these years of using tools I stuck
my thumb in a table saw a little over a month ago. Up 16 hours,
something on his mind, decision making capabilities gone out the
window.

BTW, the thumb is healing nicely but the thumb print will never be the
same and being "just a tad sensitive" I seem to keep poking things
with it.

BT,DT!

Might I suggest the most basic safety practice; keep the blade no higher
than necessary to cut the wood.


That is why I only lost the very tip of my thumb.:-)) Even the
thumbnail is OK. Finger print will never be the same though.

Besides, you get a much cleaner cut on the wood with the blade low
like that.
Also, there is a rule that says once you hit your finger with a hammer, or
cut it with a saw, you WILL hit it on everything nearby, as often as is
possible. Seen it many times. DONE it many times! g
Doorknobs are magnetic to thumbs!

Joyce went out and purchased one of those metal splints they use on
broken fingers and toes. Twas only a buck plus change. (and well
worth it) One of the drug store chains had the same brand, but in
multiple sizes for around $6 each. The thing is soft Aluminum with a
foam padding. It's very easy to reshape the single size to fit most
any appendage. I reshaped the thing to fit snug but comfortably

As it's fully healed over I'm only wearing a Band-Aid over it to help
reduce the sensitivity IOW The Band-Aid is fro cleanliness and does
little to reduce the sensation when "bumping" things, but the amount
of swearing has been greatly reduced.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mar 23, 1:35*am, M wrote:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...X00332&key=1is out

Departed runway 27, VFR, midnight, in marginal condition. *

No, the NTSB report doesn't say the departure was VFR. The report says
there was an IFR plan, and doesn't say whether a clearance had been
obtained before takeoff.

According
tohttp://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0802/NE3TO.PDF, IFR departure procedure
off runway 27 is N/A due to obstacles.

Right, but as was discussed in this thread when the NTSB report came
out a few days ago, takeoff minimums and ODPs were not mandatory for
this flight, so he could have legally departed runway 27 under IFR.