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#182
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On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 17:38:23 +0000, ArtKramr wrote:
[snip] In other words nothing military. Not for some 25+ years now. But then I'm not the one harping on it, am I? I make no claim to any military virtue beyond being competent in the basic military skills of an infantryman. IBM __________________________________________________ _____________________________ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com The Worlds Uncensored News Source |
#183
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Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (B2431) Date: 9/7/2004 1:52 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: I'll bet he saw more combat than you did and he flew C-54s. A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have done harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner. Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#184
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I'll bet he saw more combat than you did and he flew C-54s. A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have done harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner. Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer Art, Being a bombadeer / navigator is not like piloting anything. Admit it Art, you were a just a crew member on an airplane flown by a real pilot. Applying your convoluted "logic" to your self - you have no right to express opinions on piloting anything - or on being a commissioned officer with aircraft command authority. And your definition of "action" is so screwd up I'm not even going to comment... Jack G. |
#185
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"ArtKramr" wrote in message ... A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have done harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner. Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else. When it comes to doing harm to the enemy, "unarmed airliners" delivering paratroops isn't so different from bombers delivering bombs. |
#186
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ArtKramr wrote:
A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have done harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner. Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else. Ahh, now we have a new Kramer version of combat. Now, to qualify, you must have delivered explosive ordnance. C-47s flying over "the Hump" and intercepted by Japanese Zeros...not "real combat". C-130s landing in Khe Sahn during artilliary and mortor fire...not combat. UH-60s inserting SF forces behind Iraqi lines before the beginning of Iraqi Freedom...not combat. Hell, Ed Rasimus in an F-4E on MiGCAP over Hanoi...not combat. The list gets shorter and shorter.... BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#187
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Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Jack G" Date: 9/7/2004 7:54 PM Pacific Art, Being a bombadeer / navigator is not like piloting anything. Admit it Art, you were a just a crew member on an airplane flown by a real pilot. Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get him over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover? Just to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. So don't make too big a deal of pilots . Some are good and some are not..If you get one who can fly a good bomb run, not dump your gyro and keep the wings level so you don't dump bombs all over the landscape, you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not all that easy to find. And as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb run, no one is more qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this is a subject you would know nothing about. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#188
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Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (BUFDRVR) Date: 9/7/2004 8:18 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: ArtKramr wrote: A C-54 is not a combat aircraft. Seeing "action" implies that you have done harm to the enemy. You can't do harm to the enemy in an unarmed airliner. Flying combat airccraft is one thing, Flying airliners is something else. Ahh, now we have a new Kramer version of combat. Now, to qualify, you must have delivered explosive ordnance. C-47s flying over "the Hump" and intercepted by Japanese Zeros...not "real combat". C-130s landing in Khe Sahn during artilliary and mortor fire...not combat. UH-60s inserting SF forces behind Iraqi lines before the beginning of Iraqi Freedom...not combat. Hell, Ed Rasimus in an F-4E on MiGCAP over Hanoi...not combat. The list gets shorter and shorter.... BUFDRVR Don't try to mix Ed with the wannabbes on this NG. Ed fought the good fight. But why are you still on that eternal bomb run that never ends? You have been on that bomb run for years and never reached the target. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#189
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"ArtKramr" wrote
Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get him over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover? Just to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. So don't make too big a deal of pilots . Some are good and some are not..If you get one who can fly a good bomb run, not dump your gyro and keep the wings level so you don't dump bombs all over the landscape, you are lucky.But good bomb run pilots are not all that easy to find. And as far as judging pilots performance on a bomb run, no one is more qualified to make that judgement than a bombardier. But this is a subject you would know nothing about. This pretty much proves that Kramer is dead, and his nephew or ******* child has taken over his name. A real veteran doesn't think like that, and I've known some serious misfits, but never to this level. |
#190
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Do you know why they have pilots on bombers? Just for one reason which
was to put a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have gunners on a bomber? Just one reason. To protect that bombardier and get him over the target for 30 seconds. Do you know why they have fighter cover? Just to get a bombardier over a target for 30 seconds. The pilot is only a bus driver to deliver him where he can hurt the enemy. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: The incredibly small world of Mr. Kramer just got a lot smaller. Kind of sad watching him self-destruct... Jack G. |
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