Guess Who's Planning to Shine Lasers on Pilots

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
om...
I haven't heard of any Islamic organizations suggesting that you convert
to Islam or give up your property to dictators. Got any references?

Regards,

Neil

You are right Neil they don't want us to do any of those things. They
simply want us all dead.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 01:26:24 GMT, Doug Carter
wrote in : :

The creation of a tipping point to create an environment favorable to
democracy in the Mideast.

You haven't been keeping abreast of the developments in Iraq. It
looks as though the Iraqis have chosen theocracy over democracy. If
so, this places the American people in the unexpected position of
supporting Islam!

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:14:44 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Face facts: People who blow themselves up on a crowded school bus full of
kids are not rational beings. If they were, they would be working to make
the electoral process in Iraq (or Afghanistan, or Iran, or wherever) work
better -- or any of a thousand other positive, constructive acts -- rather
than killing innocents.

To glorify their "cause" by analyzing their motives plays directly into
their hand. They do not deserve such an honor.

There's a word that describes this kind of thinking Jay, it's called
"Ethnocentrism". It's literal defination is: "thinking one's own
group's ways are superior to others" or "judging other groups as
inferior to one's own". "Ethnic" refers to cultural heritage, and
"centrism" refers to the central starting point... so "ethnocentrism"
basically refers to judging other groups from our own cultural point
of view. An example of this might be to view native life in interior
New Guinea or the jungles of the upper Amazon river as being backward
and deprived. It only seems that way to the "civilized" observer
based on his/her cultural upbringing. The natives, without
intervention from civilization, think their lives are just fine
thanks.

The same thing could be said when studying suicide bombers. To them
and their culture, they are definately not irrational nor is every
single one of the mentally ill. In fact none who have been captured
alive (prior to bombing or when a bomb failed to detonate of course)
and interviewed by psychiatrists have been diagnosed that way.

You may think that people who blow themselves up to be irrational or
mentally ill, but can it really be mental illness if it continues to
occur year after year and has the support not only of the culture but
of the very families of the dead bombers in some cases? That's one
hell of a mental illness, and it lately only seems to be afflicting
those of Islamic upbringing. That would be a pretty peculiar mental
illness if true. During WWII, the Japanese turned suicide bombing
into an extremely effective military weapon. None of those who flew
against the Navy are now considered mentally ill although the
terrified sailers shooting for their very lives may have thought so.
The Germans actually recruited fighter pilots in a suicide squadron
towards the end of the war. Note: Two sentences that mention
aviation. ;-)

There are many reasons Bin laden and other middle eastern groups have
been attacking the US, Isreal and any enemy they percieve, none of
them start with mental illness. They are deeply rooted in religious
fundamentalism. To me, religious fundamentalism is the One True Evil
in the world.

Corky Scott

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:12:12 -0500, Corky Scott
wrote in
::

To me, religious fundamentalism is the One True Evil
in the world.

I have heard it said, that religion is the gateway to mental illness.
:-)

In article ,
Corky Scott wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:14:44 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Face facts: People who blow themselves up on a crowded school bus full of
kids are not rational beings. If they were, they would be working to make
the electoral process in Iraq (or Afghanistan, or Iran, or wherever) work
better -- or any of a thousand other positive, constructive acts -- rather
than killing innocents.

To glorify their "cause" by analyzing their motives plays directly into
their hand. They do not deserve such an honor.

There's a word that describes this kind of thinking Jay, it's called
"Ethnocentrism". It's literal defination is: "thinking one's own
group's ways are superior to others"

Well, speaking for myself, while I think people are basically the same
the world around, I do definitely think certain cultures are very much
superior to others -- and judging by the final sentence of your full
message (below), you believe similarly. You may want to label this as
"Ethnocentrism" though I'd probably avoid that term myself and try
instead to give a more nuanced and detailed description of what I
actually believe, since I think that term has acquired perjorative
connotations and is used more for derogatory than for descriptive
purposes.

In any case, the issue here is more the semantics of the term mental
illness -- and despite the attempts of professional psychologists or
psychiatrists to provide formal definitions of this term, really useful
or widely accepted operational definitions of the term are lacking, and
probably impossible to obtain.

I've had some encounters with clearly mentally ill people, up close and
personal, in various different situations, and it would be my opinion
that there is at least some significant correlation between excessive
religious fundamentalism (or excessive student radicalism, or far right
political conservatism) and mental illness -- but the correlation is far
from 100%.

That said, I'd accept the rest of your message -- except that trying to
subsume views of native cultures and fundamentalist suicide bombers
under a single term doesn't seem to me to help foster clear thinking
about either case.

or "judging other groups as
inferior to one's own". "Ethnic" refers to cultural heritage, and
"centrism" refers to the central starting point... so "ethnocentrism"
basically refers to judging other groups from our own cultural point
of view. An example of this might be to view native life in interior
New Guinea or the jungles of the upper Amazon river as being backward
and deprived. It only seems that way to the "civilized" observer
based on his/her cultural upbringing. The natives, without
intervention from civilization, think their lives are just fine
thanks.

The same thing could be said when studying suicide bombers. To them
and their culture, they are definately not irrational nor is every
single one of the mentally ill. In fact none who have been captured
alive (prior to bombing or when a bomb failed to detonate of course)
and interviewed by psychiatrists have been diagnosed that way.

You may think that people who blow themselves up to be irrational or
mentally ill, but can it really be mental illness if it continues to
occur year after year and has the support not only of the culture but
of the very families of the dead bombers in some cases? That's one
hell of a mental illness, and it lately only seems to be afflicting
those of Islamic upbringing. That would be a pretty peculiar mental
illness if true. During WWII, the Japanese turned suicide bombing
into an extremely effective military weapon. None of those who flew
against the Navy are now considered mentally ill although the
terrified sailers shooting for their very lives may have thought so.
The Germans actually recruited fighter pilots in a suicide squadron
towards the end of the war. Note: Two sentences that mention
aviation. ;-)

There are many reasons Bin laden and other middle eastern groups have
been attacking the US, Isreal and any enemy they percieve, none of
them start with mental illness. They are deeply rooted in religious
fundamentalism. To me, religious fundamentalism is the One True Evil
in the world.

Corky Scott

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:12:12 -0500, Corky Scott
wrote in
::

To me, religious fundamentalism is the One True Evil
in the world.

I have heard it said, that religion is the gateway to mental illness.
:-)

Great post! You said more in a dozen words than I said in ten times
that number.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:08:10 -0800, AES wrote:

it would be my opinion
that there is at least some significant correlation between excessive
religious fundamentalism (or excessive student radicalism, or far right
political conservatism) and mental illness -- but the correlation is far
from 100%.

Uh oh. INCOMING, HIT THE DIRT!!

Not from me though. I've long thought the extreme forms of religion
to be very like mental illness. Ever been to a tent revival meeting?
You get to see people writhing on the ground and speaking in "tongues"
that no one on earth will recognize. What's going on with THAT?

They aren't called "the holy rollers" for nothing. And yet that's
considered perfectly acceptible behavior by those who practice such
faiths. Hmmm, hope such visitations don't occur while driving or
flying ... crash city.

Corky Scott

Corky Scott wrote:
To me, religious fundamentalism is the One True Evil
in the world.

That's the big one, and right behind it is nationalism a.k.a. patriotism.

Corky Scott wrote:

You get to see people writhing on the ground and speaking in "tongues"
that no one on earth will recognize. What's going on with THAT?

Bears a strong resemblance to grand mal epilepsy, but epileptics don't usually
vocalize during their fits. I've known epileptics that could go into siezure at
will. Perhaps this is the same sort of thing.

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 19:10:42 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:

I've known epileptics that could go into siezure at
will. Perhaps this is the same sort of thing.

Sure is, The Holy Church of the Seizures of the Lord... amen brother.

Corky Scott