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#11
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
Steve Hix wrote:
In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , TonyW wrote: On 10/6/2010 2:43 AM, wrote: http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...pics-1-video.h tm l Karl Not the first, it was done 30 years ago, Google Gossamer Albatross. GA was prop-driven, not an ornithopter (thrust from wing flapping). This one doesn't seem to have enough power to take off on its own, but enough to barely maintain level flight. Mildly creepy looking under weigh; looks like a sailplane with severe low-frequency flutter. This one was not an ornithopter either... It just LOOKS like one... How much flapping do you have to do before it's an ornithopter? Not being able to take off under its own power doesn't help, mind. Oh, I'd guess - enough for the wings to actually FLAP rather than just FLEX. -- Richard Lamb |
#12
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , TonyW wrote: On 10/6/2010 2:43 AM, wrote: http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...3-pics-1-video .h tm l Karl Not the first, it was done 30 years ago, Google Gossamer Albatross. GA was prop-driven, not an ornithopter (thrust from wing flapping). This one doesn't seem to have enough power to take off on its own, but enough to barely maintain level flight. Mildly creepy looking under weigh; looks like a sailplane with severe low-frequency flutter. This one was not an ornithopter either... It just LOOKS like one... How much flapping do you have to do before it's an ornithopter? Not being able to take off under its own power doesn't help, mind. Oh, I'd guess - enough for the wings to actually FLAP rather than just FLEX. To your mind, what would make it flapping rather than flexing? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#13
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
Alan Baker wrote:
In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , TonyW wrote: On 10/6/2010 2:43 AM, wrote: http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...3-pics-1-video .h tm l Karl Not the first, it was done 30 years ago, Google Gossamer Albatross. GA was prop-driven, not an ornithopter (thrust from wing flapping). This one doesn't seem to have enough power to take off on its own, but enough to barely maintain level flight. Mildly creepy looking under weigh; looks like a sailplane with severe low-frequency flutter. This one was not an ornithopter either... It just LOOKS like one... How much flapping do you have to do before it's an ornithopter? Not being able to take off under its own power doesn't help, mind. Oh, I'd guess - enough for the wings to actually FLAP rather than just FLEX. To your mind, what would make it flapping rather than flexing? No, I'm not interested in a debate on this. Pick your pony - believe what you want... -- Richard Lamb |
#14
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
CaveLamb wrote: Alan Baker wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , TonyW wrote: On 10/6/2010 2:43 AM, wrote: http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...-23-pics-1-vid eo .h tm l Karl Not the first, it was done 30 years ago, Google Gossamer Albatross. GA was prop-driven, not an ornithopter (thrust from wing flapping). This one doesn't seem to have enough power to take off on its own, but enough to barely maintain level flight. Mildly creepy looking under weigh; looks like a sailplane with severe low-frequency flutter. This one was not an ornithopter either... It just LOOKS like one... How much flapping do you have to do before it's an ornithopter? Not being able to take off under its own power doesn't help, mind. Oh, I'd guess - enough for the wings to actually FLAP rather than just FLEX. To your mind, what would make it flapping rather than flexing? No, I'm not interested in a debate on this. Pick your pony - believe what you want... So... ...you're just interested in making unsupported pronouncements? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#15
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , CaveLamb wrote: Alan Baker wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , TonyW wrote: On 10/6/2010 2:43 AM, wrote: http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...-23-pics-1-vid eo .h tm l Karl Not the first, it was done 30 years ago, Google Gossamer Albatross. GA was prop-driven, not an ornithopter (thrust from wing flapping). This one doesn't seem to have enough power to take off on its own, but enough to barely maintain level flight. Mildly creepy looking under weigh; looks like a sailplane with severe low-frequency flutter. This one was not an ornithopter either... It just LOOKS like one... How much flapping do you have to do before it's an ornithopter? Not being able to take off under its own power doesn't help, mind. Oh, I'd guess - enough for the wings to actually FLAP rather than just FLEX. To your mind, what would make it flapping rather than flexing? No, I'm not interested in a debate on this. Pick your pony - believe what you want... So... ...you're just interested in making unsupported pronouncements? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg Alan, I'll be pleased to hear what you have to say on this: 1. At what speed and altitude did the craft release from the auto-tow?. 2.. How far and how long did it fly under its own power until it was no longer able to maintain that altitude and airspeed? Would you think that those two questions are pertinent to the discussion? Also, have you any connection with this project at all? (You know, "Disclaimer", as it were). Thanks, Flash |
#16
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
"Flash60601" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , CaveLamb wrote: Alan Baker wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , TonyW wrote: On 10/6/2010 2:43 AM, wrote: http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...ers-23-pics-1- vid eo .h tm l Karl Not the first, it was done 30 years ago, Google Gossamer Albatross. GA was prop-driven, not an ornithopter (thrust from wing flapping). This one doesn't seem to have enough power to take off on its own, but enough to barely maintain level flight. Mildly creepy looking under weigh; looks like a sailplane with severe low-frequency flutter. This one was not an ornithopter either... It just LOOKS like one... How much flapping do you have to do before it's an ornithopter? Not being able to take off under its own power doesn't help, mind. Oh, I'd guess - enough for the wings to actually FLAP rather than just FLEX. To your mind, what would make it flapping rather than flexing? No, I'm not interested in a debate on this. Pick your pony - believe what you want... So... ...you're just interested in making unsupported pronouncements? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg Alan, I'll be pleased to hear what you have to say on this: 1. At what speed and altitude did the craft release from the auto-tow?. 2.. How far and how long did it fly under its own power until it was no longer able to maintain that altitude and airspeed? I don't know the answer to either of them... ....but I'm betting large that CaveLamb doesn't know the answer either. And simply declaring it's not flapping and the refusing to define his terms... Come on. Would you think that those two questions are pertinent to the discussion? Of course they're pertinent. I don't know how you want to qualify successful flight, but it's pretty clearly an ornithopter... ....which is the point I was trying to make. But if you're interested in its success, you might want to read this: 'The "Snowbird" performed its record-breaking flight on August 2 at the Great Lakes Gliding Club in Tottenham, Ont., witnessed by the vice-president (Canada) of the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), the world-governing body for air sports and aeronautical world records. The official record claim was filed this month, and the FAI is expected to confirm the ornithopter's world record at its meeting in October.' http://www.physorg.com/news204386550.html It goes on: 'For centuries engineers have attempted such a feat, ever since Leonardo da Vinci sketched the first human-powered ornithopter in 1485. But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies (UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour.' 'sustained both altitude and airspeed' seems to be fairly definitive. Also, have you any connection with this project at all? (You know, "Disclaimer", as it were). Nope. No connection of any kind. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#17
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
"Flash60601" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Flash60601" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , TonyW wrote: On 10/6/2010 2:43 AM, wrote: http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...rs-23-pics-1-v ide o.h tm l Karl Not the first, it was done 30 years ago, Google Gossamer Albatross. GA was prop-driven, not an ornithopter (thrust from wing flapping). This one doesn't seem to have enough power to take off on its own, but enough to barely maintain level flight. Mildly creepy looking under weigh; looks like a sailplane with severe low-frequency flutter. This one was not an ornithopter either... It just LOOKS like one... How do you conclude that? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg Well, to be atrue ornithopter, its takeoff would not be towed by an automobile, for the first thing. And secondly, it should be able to sustain flight by flapping. This thing was simply a unique-looking glider with wings that flexed a bit in ground effect, after the car towing it got it moving. It may indeed be a comendable piece of aerdymanic ingenuity, but an "ornithopter it is NOT. Flash You're reaching a little bit, I think. It was definitely flapping its wings and the folks who built it know how to make that work. They based it on a powered ornithopter that achieved flight on its own from a standing start. Cool!. Got any videos or link to that one??? Yup. http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html But start he http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#18
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
Alan Baker wrote:
I No, I'm not interested in a debate on this. Pick your pony - believe what you want... So... ...you're just interested in making unsupported pronouncements? I've heard from you before, Alan. Have no intention of repeating the experience. -- Richard Lamb |
#19
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
The op gave us this link...
http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...s-1-video.html Which is NOT the same machine as this... http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html But start he http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html |
#20
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First Human Powered Ornithopter
In article ,
CaveLamb wrote: The op gave us this link... http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...s-1-video.html Yes. That is the human powered machine. Which is NOT the same machine as this... http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html But start he http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html It's not the same, because the poster to whom I was replying was asking about the engine powered ornithopter that had definitely taken off from a standing start. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
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