Fuel Transfer Placards

I was just thinking of that. I'm actually surprised you can find
it there in Iowa, Jay. I know of two places (coincidentally where my
family is and I tend to fly to) where ethanol is mandated. Milwaukee, WI
requires not only oxygenate, but with a weird mix that only they use
(read: expensive).

Actually, it's in a four or five county area surrounding Milwaukee. I know,
because my hometown, Racine, WI, is just south of Milwaukee -- and we were
all really, REALLY ****ed when the EPA mandated that we all use only
"specially formulated" gasoline.

We were especially ****ed because our air quality issues were directly
related to the pollution coming from Chicago, just south of us -- and THEY
simply refused to follow the EPA mandate! (I was a renter when I lived
there, so the-car-gas-in-your-plane issue wasn't on my radar screen yet)

I'd
better fly some more to pay back the $1500 STC for my Cherokee before pure
gasoline goes away...

I'm well over 2,000 gallons of gas pumped through the Mighty Grape now. At
our current price differential (AvGas $2.90; Car Gas $1.43) I've saved
myself $2940.00 in just eleven months.

Ka-CHING! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Almost enough to cover the payments on the Mighty Grape?

Jay Honeck wrote:

I'm well over 2,000 gallons of gas pumped through the Mighty Grape now. At
our current price differential (AvGas $2.90; Car Gas $1.43) I've saved
myself $2940.00 in just eleven months.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

In article ,
wrote:

Columbus, OH also mandates ethanol.

Where did you learn that?
Ohio law mandates that gasoline containing ethanol must be sold from a
pump placarded with that information and that the ethanol content may
not exceed 10%.
I haven't found any pumps in the northwest side of the city that
display the placard.

wrote in message ...
I'd
better fly some more to pay back the $1500 STC for my Cherokee before pure
gasoline goes away...

Hey Cory,

I see that you took the plunge on the STC. Just out of curiosity,
how much time did it take to do the installation? People always ask
me that, but mine was installed before I bought the plane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Almost enough to cover the payments on the Mighty Grape?

Shoot, Ray, the Grape is long since paid for. That thing only cost me $1800
bucks, and then I put another couple of hundred bucks into it for "niceties"
(I.E.: A CD player, new brakes, a muffler...)

And best of all -- we drive it back and forth to work every day. The danged
thing runs as good as my Subaru Outback, for a tenth the cost...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

BTW, Jay... how much water and gunk have you found in your system
after running hundreds (thousands?) of gallons through? Cut open the
filter when you change it if you haven't already....

Well, our sumps are always clean. No water, no particulates.

But I haven't actually cut open the gasoline filters on the pump. There's
just something about cutting metal around gasoline that bothers me...

I suppose that's silly -- the oil filter cutter I've got works like a big
can opener, and certainly shouldn't make any sparks. (Never has before,
anyway.) I'm about due for a filter change on The Grape -- maybe I'll take
a peek inside the next one.

(I'd be surprised to find anything in the filter, though. The gas station I
purposefully selected as my supplier is brand new, with all new tanks and
pumps. If THOSE guys have gunk in their fuel, we're all in big trouble...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
: I'm well over 2,000 gallons of gas pumped through the Mighty Grape now. At
: our current price differential (AvGas $2.90; Car Gas $1.43) I've saved
: myself $2940.00 in just eleven months.

That's a lot of go-juice. It's about as close to guilt-free
flying as you can get, running cargas. Around here, the 87 AKI is $1.29
now, and the 93 high-test (needed in my plane) is still only $1.45.
There's also $0.125/gal road-tax rebate in VA. As luck (fate?) would have
it, shortly after I installed the STC, my airport discovered they weren't
making any money selling fuel at the highest price around. They changed
their base rate from $2.65 to $2.03 (now $2.13) for 100LL. Oh well, it's
still $0.50/gal cheaper.

-Cory
--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

EDR wrote:
: Where did you learn that?
: Ohio law mandates that gasoline containing ethanol must be sold from a
: pump placarded with that information and that the ethanol content may
: not exceed 10%.
: I haven't found any pumps in the northwest side of the city that
: display the placard.

Sheepishly, it was a guess on my part. Partly because of my
experience in Milwaukee, I figured Ohio was the same. All the pumps I
went to had the placard. I tried asking employees/managers about it and
got a look commensurate with a chimpanzee confronted with a Rubicks cube.
I would be interested in finding it there. If I could put 10 gal in for
the trip back to VA, it'd be a little more reassuring. Last trip up and
back I had 15 gal left, which is only an hour and half. Not quite enough
reserve for me.

-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

John Galban wrote:
: Hey Cory,

: I see that you took the plunge on the STC. Just out of curiosity,
: how much time did it take to do the installation? People always ask
: me that, but mine was installed before I bought the plane.

I did it under the supervision of my I/A. It probably took about
6-8 hours, just like the STC said it would. The ugliest part was having
to find a 37 degree AN-style flaring tool to flare the last piece of
plumbing. In order to put everything on rigidly, some last-minute sizing
of one piece may be necessary, so Petersen doesn't cut/flare one piece of
tubing. Also, finding a few tools (slightly strange drill bit sizes, and
a rivnut puller) were a kind of scavenger hunt.

Good things about the STC (in addition to the usual ones of fuel
price, no lead fouling, etc):

- Additional fuel pumps (one or the other) actually boost the pressure in
high-flow conditions. The original Piper pump didn't ever really seem to
do much when it was turned on.
- Gascolator now pressurized (vapor lock issues).
- Two redundant pumps "seem" safer... BUT

Potential "bad" things about the STC:
- Removes heat shroud around fuel pump and gascolator. Seems like a bad
idea.
- Presurizes primer line. Helps fill primer when starting, but a bad seal
in the cabin could cause fuel leak inside. Another point of failure.
- Changes pump configuration from "parallel" to "series." In the stock
configuration, the line from the fuel selector (through the gascolator)
splits and goes via two completely separate paths to the carb. One path
is the mechanical pump, the other path is the electric boost. The new
configuration splits at the fuel selector to go through either of the new
electric pumps. Then it combines again to go through the gascolator and
onto the mechanical pump and to the carb. If the diaphram fails on the
mechanical pump, it seems like it could starve the engine. Again, another
point of failure.

Oh, and it requires boring another 1.5" hole for the gascolator
about 2" below the original one. Cosmetic, but slightly annoying.

Everything else aside, it seems to work well. I've put probably
75 hours on almost exclusively autofuel. I try to keep a bit of 100LL in
the takeoff tank, but didn't observe any signs of detonation during the
summer when operating as low as probably 10% 100LL, 90% 93 A.K.I autofuel.

FWIW, YMMV, DIY, XYZ/PDQ, etc
-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

Jay Honeck wrote:
: I suppose that's silly -- the oil filter cutter I've got works like a big
: can opener, and certainly shouldn't make any sparks. (Never has before,
: anyway.) I'm about due for a filter change on The Grape -- maybe I'll take
: a peek inside the next one.

I'd be interested to see what you find. Before I rigged in my
filter as a pour spout for the 6 gal cans, I used to consistently find a
very small amount of gunk and water in it. I'm assuming you're using the
water-absorbing type filter element?

: (I'd be surprised to find anything in the filter, though. The gas station I
: purposefully selected as my supplier is brand new, with all new tanks and
: pumps. If THOSE guys have gunk in their fuel, we're all in big trouble...)

Having my own last line of defense in fuel particulate and water
contamination removes pretty much the last issue I had with running
cargas. So far, great.

-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************