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#11
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Correct me if I'm wrong but if "you're" flying the left seat of an airplane
with paying passengers in the back seats, you are NOT a student pilot :-). Harry "Drew Hamilton" wrote in message ... Harry Gordon wrote: Toks, I'm just a student pilot right now, [...] he was sitting in the left seat which means he is the pilot-in-charge. It As you're a student pilot, I'm sure that you've spent several hours in the left seat of an aircraft without being the pilot-in-command. - awh |
#12
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#13
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"Harry Gordon" wrote in message ... Correct me if I'm wrong but if "you're" flying the left seat of an airplane with paying passengers in the back seats, you are NOT a student pilot :-). Harry So you assume the PIC can't be in the right seat? |
#14
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Robert Perkins wrote in message I think the pilot's mistake was not so
much that he was asleep while another had the controls; the safety problem with that is not as critical in a 2-crew airplane at cruise. Walker's flies a few times per week, one hour out and one hour back, always during the day with the crew being home every night. It's not a high demand job. Doing back-to-back red-eyes out to LAX can tax one with fatigue, but not doing a cake job like Walker's. Besides, a professional pilot makes sure he is well rested before taking a flight, or he calls out sick. The FO is certainly capable of flying the plane. However, radar services are NOT available for much of their route and there is a lot of traffic crossing that route. An extra set of eyes scanning for traffic is a valuable safety asset. Rather, it was that he let his passengers get unsettled enough to document it. Never scare the pax, right? They pay the bills for the flight, after all... They weren't unsettled. They were giggling. They don't pay the bills either. The island is huge tax write-off for a big corporation. Those passengers will likely be back. The one on CNN said as much. So while falling asleep wasn't bad for flight safety so much, it was *very* bad for business. Wasn't he sacked? Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. He resigned. |
#15
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Maybe NOW the feds can push through some MEANINGFUL crew rest and duty
time limitations. Whats scary is riding in the back in a 135 op and looking up to find BOTH of them guys nodding off... its happened more than once. Dave PPSEL Toks Desalu wrote: Guys! You could not believe what I saw on CNN before I left for work. I missed the beginning of the segment, but I understood the whole story. A passenger was fliming during the flight. That film was showing on CNN. The pilot got caught sleeping while flying. The pilot did not wear the headset. I noticed that he was wearing a ear plug. You could see his head tilt backward with his left eye closed. The passenger claimed that he was filming him sleeping for about one hour. At the end of segment, the CNN went to FAA for comments and the FAA claimed that it was against the regulation. FAA claimed that the pilot must be awake and his must be on the control at all the time. There is no way to tell what kind of aircraft but, it was pretty clear that it is under general aviation, a high wing with mulit-engine(propeller) aircraft. Also, because of pilot's uniform, and other passengers, it indicated that it is under part 121 operation. But, I could be wrong. I have no idea where the flight was but the reporter said he/she was reporting from West Palm Beach, Florida. Here my questions: Can you believe this? I studied regulation back in college and don't remember any specific regulation that said the hand must be at control at all time. Anybody can point it out? Why they really want to make us look bad? Feel free to comment on this. Toks PP_ASEL |
#16
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What have you been smoking?!?
"Dave S" wrote in message ... Maybe NOW the feds can push through some MEANINGFUL crew rest and duty time limitations. |
#17
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On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 07:54:57 GMT, "Capt. Doug"
wrote: The FO is certainly capable of flying the plane. However, radar services are NOT available for much of their route and there is a lot of traffic crossing that route. An extra set of eyes scanning for traffic is a valuable safety asset. And I, in the light singles I'm allowed to fly? Were I to fly that route under part 91, would I therefore be a detrimental safety liability, if my pax don't scan for traffic? (And yes, I've had conversations with pilots who reported waking up in their light single in an unusual attitude. Not fun, I'm told...) I didn't argue that the man didn't need to be awake. I argue that it was much worse on the company flying that leg to have a pilot get caught doing what pilots do on occasion, and have that hit the news ("OMG! a pilot was asleep! That's worse than Palestinian Suicide Bombers! Run the video again, Bob!") than the actual detriment to safety warranted. IOW, pax overreacted. Media (as usual) overreacted. One thing's for sure, though, IMO. The age-60 rule just got itself another point in the "pro" column, don't you think? So while falling asleep wasn't bad for flight safety so much, it was *very* bad for business. Wasn't he sacked? Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. He resigned. Nixon style, beating them to the pink slip? Or would he have kept his job after making the national news anyway? eh? Rob |
#18
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Dave S wrote:
Maybe NOW the feds can push through some MEANINGFUL crew rest and duty time limitations. Whats scary is riding in the back in a 135 op and looking up to find BOTH of them guys nodding off... its happened more than once. Back in '72 I flew Aeroflot across the Atlantic and was shocked to see the stewardess carrying glasses of cognac to the cabin (and later returning with the empties). Oh well, we made it. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame |
#19
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"Capt. Doug" wrote in message ...
Robert Perkins said: wrote in message I think the pilot's mistake was not so much that he was asleep while another had the controls; the safety problem with that is not as critical in a 2-crew airplane at cruise. snip, snip Cap sez: Walker's flies a few times per week, one hour out and one hour back, always during the day with the crew being home every night. It's not a high demand job. Doing back-to-back red-eyes out to LAX can tax one with fatigue, but not doing a cake job like Walker's. Besides, a professional pilot makes sure he is well rested before taking a flight, or he calls out sick. snip, both ends Pac sez: Right you are Cap Doug... but, Boy, I'm not touching this one with a ten-foot pole. But you ougtta see how many people are awake on the flight deck of a "back door" round the world flight somewhere around MNL to BOM. ;-) Time zones, circadian rhythm disruption, short layovers, and fatigue from struggling to understand foreign controllers (over 80% of communication is through facial expressions.) NASA did sleep studies in the 90's; wired us up for six mo's. The preliminary report concluded we "were operating in a dangerously impaired state" from sleep deprivation "most of the time" (night cargo ops.) Big box-hauler management got wind of this, and saw to it that the report (which was on their property, and published voluntarily with their consent,) was never published. UPS pilots sued, and then I never heard what the outcome was. Keep the door closed! Never know who's hiding in a suspicious looking box with a camcorder! pac "cargo dog" plyer |
#20
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"Capt. Doug" wrote in message
news:lP6Sa.62639 Rather, it was that he let his passengers get unsettled enough to document it. Never scare the pax, right? They pay the bills for the flight, after all... They weren't unsettled. They were giggling. They don't pay the bills either. The island is huge tax write-off for a big corporation. Those passengers will likely be back. The one on CNN said as much. A difference without distinction. So while falling asleep wasn't bad for flight safety so much, it was *very* bad for business. Wasn't he sacked? Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. He resigned. See above |
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