Great shot of the Thunderbird F-16 Ejection

In article vViQb.58525$zs4.35677@fed1read01,
"BTIZ" wrote:

because the MSL altitude of the ground is to high above sea level and it
can't be turned down that far to "zero"..

we have the same problem with flat land sail plane pilots.. if I set my
local altimeter to zero.. which I can't because it's to far to go.. beyond
the adjustment range of the altimeter.. then how do I know I'm high enough
to clear the local mountains.. or if my landing airport is still 2500ft
above the airport I take off from.. I have to do the mental math calculation
to know my AGL altitude.


He's talking about doing acro over the field...not making a
cross-country.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

He's talking about doing acro over the field...not making a
cross-country.

--
Dale L. Falk

regardless.. you still can't turn the altimeter adjustment that far to get
to zero.. and if the local pilots want to fly at zero.. it sets bad habit
patterns for when they do go cross country

BT

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:FvxQb.59482$zs4.11458@fed1read01...

He's talking about doing acro over the field...not making a
cross-country.

--
Dale L. Falk

regardless.. you still can't turn the altimeter adjustment that far to get
to zero.. and if the local pilots want to fly at zero.. it sets bad habit
patterns for when they do go cross country

Well maybe someone ought to think outside the box (or, in this case - inside
the box). It makes sense to have an adjustable altimeter for aerobatics than
can be zero'ed through at least 10,000 MSL.

Hey gang... just wondering if anyone's been here.
The wife and i want to do an overnighter in the city
and was wondering how the services and security are?
I went to Airnav.Com and checked out some comments.
Some good, some bad...
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Mark, N3165P, Apache Driver

"Pilot Bob (I am just a great guy!!)" wrote:

It makes sense to have an adjustable altimeter for aerobatics than
can be zero'ed through at least 10,000 MSL.

And you're going to put this *where* in an F-16?

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

In a previous article, said:
"Pilot Bob (I am just a great guy!!)" wrote:

It makes sense to have an adjustable altimeter for aerobatics than
can be zero'ed through at least 10,000 MSL.

And you're going to put this *where* in an F-16?

On an F-16, it will probably be a software patch. They don't call it the
Electric Jet for nothin.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Please say this was followed by a very serious discussion on Right and
Wrong involving a blow torch, 220V, a cobra and three East Germans
named Georg... -- Robert Uhl

I haven't been there since all the snow started, but I have been there
several times over the last year or so. There is a group of really nice
guys who split time between Bader and two or three other south Jersey
fields. Someone is generally there 9-5, but not every day, so you can
call them to find out their schedule (the number is on AirNav or AOPA -
South Jersey Air). The runways get swept for debris (dropped by seagulls)
once a week, and so if you get there the right day, they are very clean.

They charge a small landing fee ($5 for a 172) when they are there, but
they're not always there...

The field is fenced in, but last time I was there, you could walk in and
out any time. I had heard there was a vandalism problem a few years back,
when the FBO wasn't servicing the place. But now that they are back, it
seems to have been resolved. (I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't
sponsored by their previous Mayor who had a bug up his ass for GA). I
have left a plane there overnight without any problem.

There are cabs that listen to the CTAF, so if you request it on callup
they will meet you there... "Bader Unicom, Cessna is 10 miles to the
north, inbound, for advisories. Will need a taxi after we land." (It's
not FAA language, but if you keep it short no one seems to mind - it's
done all the time!) In fact, the last time I was there, a cab was waiting
even though I hand't asked for it!

Even if you land and there is no cab waiting for you outside the gate,
they have phone numbers posted on the trailer on the field so you can
call one if your cell is charged. If not, you have to walk a bit to the
brown building to the left of the baseball field, where they also have
offices (and bathrooms)... Or you can walk straight out to the McDonalds
or other restaurants on Black Horse Pike. It's not bad when it's not -7F!

The cab ride to the casinos is quick and cheap. As far as staying there,
I haven't done it - I fly to Bader because I do business with the
newspaper there... I'm not sure of your (or your wife's) tastes vs. your
budget, but you can get a clean and comfortable bed for $69 or so with
(IIRC) a free shuttle at a place like the Ramada Inn if you don't want to
stay right in the casino. You can even see the airport from your room if
you are on the right side of the building!

Good luck!

"Mark S Conway" wrote in news:H6BQb.110271
$Rc4.794519@attbi_s54:

Hey gang... just wondering if anyone's been here.
The wife and i want to do an overnighter in the city
and was wondering how the services and security are?
I went to Airnav.Com and checked out some comments.
Some good, some bad...
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Mark, N3165P, Apache Driver

In article 5igQb.131182$I06.1149412@attbi_s01, Jay Honeck
wrote:
McSpadden says Stricklin is an exceptional officer. "He is an
extremely talented pilot. He came in here and made an honest mistake," says
Lt. Col. McSpadden. But that mistake has cost Stricklin his prestigious spot
on the Thunderbird team. "He's assigned to Washington D.C.," says McSpadden.
"He's working in the Pentagon there in one of the agencies."

Yep, have an aviation accident in the military and your two choices for
your next duty station a

a. training command

b. the Pentagon

Go figure?

"BTIZ" wrote

regardless.. you still can't turn the altimeter adjustment
that far to get to zero..

BTIZ..or whatever your name is...I found this posted over at
rec.aviation.naval by Dudley Henriques who seems to have a lot
of experience in this field.

Bob Moore

I've been back channeling for two days now with friends who are
ex-Thunderbirds and professional pilots in other professions. Most of us
are
puzzled by the report although not at all puzzled by the results of
Stricklin's mistake!
There's something about this report some of us don't quite get, and it
concerns the zero set on the altimeters. The TB fly a zero set altimeter
for
a show. It's not only basic for low altitude acro work, but it's specified
in the regulations for the Thunderbird mission and procedures. (the old
regulation anyway. haven't seen the revised one yet)
My guys however, were on the T38 team, and the TB regulation for practice
might have been changed since then. However, none of us believe that
Stricklin took off with the altimeter set for the elevation at Mountain
Home, which is 2996 feet ASL. That leaves only one scenario; that the
present Viper team must be using a MSL base at Nellis for practice because
of the mountains at Indian Springs. If this is true, then we still can't
figure out why Stricklin would reverse on the roof of his maneuver with a
target altitude of 1600 feet which is basically what happened. It just
doesn't make sense to us. If the team is using a MSL base at Nellis, and
Stricklin was using that base in his mind when he reversed; the elevation
at
Nellis is 2000 feet. That would have put his reverse at 4500 feet for the
Viper instead of the 1600 plus he used. 1600 is way low for the Viper even
for a zero set altimeter reference It's very puzzling!!!
Also, there's been a lot of talk about not being able to zero altimeters at
some high elevation airports. This is puzzling also. The Kollsman range,
which is also the basic baro range in the Viper's CADC which drives the
Viper's altimeter in both ELECT and PNEU backup, is aprox 22.00 inches on
the low side and 32.00 inches on the high side. (I had to check this out
with some buddies of mine, as I'd forgotten the range in the Kollsman
myself!! :-)
This gives you, even figuring the 1 inch per thousand rule, an elevation
reset capability to a zero reset before takeoff of 10, 000 feet. This
basically allows a zero reset anywhere in the U.S. at least, allowing for a
standard atmosphere. I don't think I'm missing anything here, but I might
have.....getting older you know!! :-) I just can't remember a zero set
being
any problem for me during my tenure as a demonstration pilot.
The Thunderbird's are locked up tighter than a drum right now, and answers
from the present team are not easy to get; so the bottom line so far for us
old timers trying to figure this out is that the team indeed does use a MSL
reference at Nellis because of the mountains, but resets to a zero
altimeter
set before takeoff at the show site. If this is the case, it's
understandable to me how Chris Stricklin could have made the mistake he
did.
I'll tell you up front. I can sympathize with Chris Stricklin, or anyone
else for that matter who has to work low altitude acro this way. If there's
one thing that will kill you doing low work it's non-standardization. If
the
Birds have to use a MSL calculation for their roof target altitudes at
Nellis for a vertical plane maneuver because of the mountains, then revert
to a zero set when doing a show; that in my opinion is bad news! It's only
a
matter of time when things like this catch up to you when doing low work in
high performance airplanes.
Chris Stricklin is a damn good pilot. He's also a damn lucky pilot!
What happened to Stricklin has happened to a lot of very good pilots who do
low work. If all this reporting is true, he was simply bitten by non
standardization! I understand the situation's being looked at closely by
the
Air Force. That's one good thing anyway, although I don't see how they're
going to change anything unless they can take the mountains at Nellis out
of
the Thunderbird equation.
Frankly, the whole damn thing is puzzling to us; us being myself and a few
ex-Thunderbirds. I know I'll probably pick up the straight scoop sooner or
later through my grapevine, but for right now, this report, and putting it
together for a clear picture of what happened to Stricklin is one large
puzzle in progress.
Dudley Henriques

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 6...
"BTIZ" wrote

Also, there's been a lot of talk about not being able to zero altimeters
at
some high elevation airports. This is puzzling also. The Kollsman range,
which is also the basic baro range in the Viper's CADC which drives the
Viper's altimeter in both ELECT and PNEU backup, is aprox 22.00 inches on
the low side and 32.00 inches on the high side. (I had to check this out
with some buddies of mine, as I'd forgotten the range in the Kollsman
myself!! :-)

Wow. OK, I was dead wrong on that (so were many others, but I think I was
the first :-) ).

-- David Brooks