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#11
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To my knowledge, the A-7 has never successfully completed a wings-folded
flight. Big problem is that the ailerons on the outer (folded) wing panels so only the spoilers on the upper surface of the wing and rudder would be available for roll control. The airplane is also not loaded in the T/W department, so the takeoff roll would be excruciatingly long. An F-8 did complete a wings-folded hop, out of Sigonella IIRC. The Phantom should certainly have had the capability and afterburner wouldn't have been the limiting factor. I know of no documented cases of the F-4 doing so. Hopefully, a second brain in the cockpit might catch the oversight prior to T/O. R / John "Yofuri" wrote in message ... a425couple wrote: I have a old question, maybe someone can refute, or verify? I tend to mistrust 'sea-stories' w.o. cites. Sometimes I think they likely true, probably partly true, or unlikely. But some good ones stick in my mind, from all categories. Making the rounds circa 1972 was that a F4 with folding wings (story was MC, possib. Navy) taxied out (story was at Kadena) got clearance to take off, hit afterburners and got enough thrust to take off. Sheesh - wingtips were still folded up. Could only stay in air with afterburner thrust, had to eject, dumped $4 mil. plane in East China Sea. True or not? Ever true anywhere or anytime to anyone?? I have seen (recently sited on s.m.n.) what appears to be a picture of a plane (A-7?) flying with tips folded, so ??? I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the patio door. Rick |
#12
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"a425couple" wrote in
: "Yofuri" wrote in message a425couple wrote: "Yofuri" wrote in message I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the patio door. Rick Thank you very much. Think that is the one pictured in the link? Could you repeat the link? I missed it. Rick Sure A good poster over on s.m.n. gave me this link, " http://www.vmf235.com/f8_wingsfolded.jpg not F-4 but if I read the photo credit right is Marine. You have to careful with Google refs ---" Anyone know if this photo is real, and what outcome was? That's not an A-7; it's an F-8. Sez so right in the link. Biggest differences - F-8 has a variable incidence wing and a pointier nose. Dave in San Diego |
#13
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:02:16 -0700, "a425couple"
postulated : I have a old question, maybe someone can refute, or verify? I tend to mistrust 'sea-stories' w.o. cites. Sometimes I think they likely true, probably partly true, or unlikely. But some good ones stick in my mind, from all categories. My friend Kit from the 50s provided some more remembrances regarding folding wing take offs: ----------------------start-------------------- I recall VF-102 from our very own Air Wing 8, on board FORRESTAL, during one of the many Med Cruises I endured, taking off from Naples AERFER, and landing safely back at the air strip in an F-8 Crusader. It did break one of the uplocks on the wing, but they fixed it, and it made it back to the ship in a couple of days. VF-84 also had one out of Rota flying F-8s.. KIT ---------------------end--------------------- So it appears that there were more than one F-8 Crusaders attempting flight with folded wings. |
#14
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I read the USAF Safety TWX on an incident where a 57th FIS F4E ;aunched
out of Rekyavik with his wings unlocked. When the bird rotated the tips went vertical and with the sudden shift of the now modified aero center the bird nosed up steeply. The RIO made the appropriate comment while the AC rolled the plane inverted to get the nose back down. At the horizon he rolled right side up and still in burner found that at 300 the tips would lie flat. (Note that USAF F4Es do not have cockpit- folding controls, - it's all done outside, on the ground, of course.) They punched the tanks and dumped fuel and determined from a little test flying that they could make an approach. I forgot the exact speed but it was doable. So they came in flat and fast, planted the bird on the runway, slowed enough to pop the chute and stopped okay. The WingCo had the usual talk with the crew. He posited that the attaboy canceled the aw **** and the crew agreed. (A little careless maybe but not stupid). The mishap occurred because the bird had just been painted sea grey over the usual slime and sewage; the wings being unlocked, the telltale red pins also became grey, and no one noticed they were sticking up when the bird was towed from the hanagr to teh flightline - or during preflight . . . This happened sometime around 1972-1973 because I was stationed at Bitburg AB Germany when I read the TWX report. Walt BJ ret ftr plt |
#15
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wrote in message oups.com... I read the USAF Safety TWX on an incident where a 57th FIS F4E ;aunched out of Rekyavik with his wings unlocked. When the bird rotated the tips went vertical and with the sudden shift of the now modified aero center the bird nosed up steeply. The RIO made the appropriate comment while the AC rolled the plane inverted to get the nose back down. At the horizon he rolled right side up and still in burner found that at 300 the tips would lie flat. (Note that USAF F4Es do not have cockpit- folding controls, - it's all done outside, on the ground, of course.) As it was on all USAF F-4s. The F-4E dispensed with hydraulic wing folding. The hydraulic wing folding controls on earlier USAF F-4s were located on a panel in the left main wheel well inboard. |
#16
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a425couple wrote:
"Yofuri" wrote in message a425couple wrote: "Yofuri" wrote in message I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the patio door. Rick Thank you very much. Think that is the one pictured in the link? Could you repeat the link? I missed it. Rick Sure A good poster over on s.m.n. gave me this link, " http://www.vmf235.com/f8_wingsfolded.jpg not F-4 but if I read the photo credit right is Marine. You have to careful with Google refs ---" Anyone know if this photo is real, and what outcome was? That's a Marine F8. The one I knew of was a VA-25 A7E. Rick |
#17
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I have seen photos of both the 57FIS F-4E and an F-4N flying with their
wings folded. Both were said to have landed safely. FWIW, the wingfold lock was actuated manually on the F-4E from a point under the fold hinge using I believe a 1/2 inch drive speed handle or ratchet, no socket, so once the 57 FIS jet was airborne there would be no way to lock the outer wing panels down. Scott Wilson Phormer F-4C and F-4E Comm-Nav Avionics Specialist |
#18
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:02:16 -0700, "a425couple"
postulated : I have a old question, maybe someone can refute, or verify? I tend to mistrust 'sea-stories' w.o. cites. Sometimes I think they likely true, probably partly true, or unlikely. But some good ones stick in my mind, from all categories. Another Naval Aviator from the 80's time frame responded to my e-mail question last evening..... --------------------------start------------------- ....S-3A VIKING OFF THE NIMITZ IN THE MED IN 1982 HAD WINGS START FOLDING ON TAKEOFF ! KILLED 3, ONE LIVED. Scott -------------------------end-------------------- |
#19
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Probably be able to reach down, lower and lock them while airborne.
Pilot and RIO pretty stupid in public tho if this is true. What was the RIO doin' when the pilot wiped out the cockpit last time? |
#20
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Remember the squadron for the F-4N?
Not many squadrons had this bird. VF-101 in KW, VF-154, VF-21 onboard Coral-Maru.. |
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