What a shame; another military newsroup gone!

Cub Driver wrote:

Of course, if anyone knows of a good restricted subscription mailing list for the
same subject with after-the-fact moderation that will eliminate the chaff, by all
means let's hear about it.

Moderated lists don't often work.

snip

Quite agree, which is why I'm not suggesting one; I don't want to wait until the
moderator has read and passed on a message. A restricted-subscription list with a
clearly stated charter and rules of behavior is a beast of a different color.
Subscribers can post anything they want and it shows up within a few minutes just like
r.a.m., but if the post doesn't meet the standards and someone complains (or the
moderator happens to notice it and thinks the violation egregious enough), the
offender(s) is/are first warned/asked to take it elsewhere and then, if they continue
to abuse the rules, their posting privilieges are suspended/banned. The control is
virtually unnoticeable with a good moderator, and the ones I've been exposed to on the
mailing lists I subscribe to (for a decade or more in some cases) have all been
laissez-faire types who only take action when the violation is prolonged or completely
outside the pale. Usually just a reminder of the charter and request to take any
continued discussions elsewhere is enough to solve the problem.

There used to be and presumably still is a Vietnam war newsgroup,

which was ruined by one individual (Phill Coleman and his alter egos
of the American War Library) and the reaction of others posters to
him. It became so disheartening that someone started a moderated
Vietnam newsgroup--which died after a year or two.

With a restricted-subscription group, he would have been banned by the moderator and
the group would have happily continued on without him.

I think Dudley got the grouch this morning. He will get over it and
come back. If not, somebody will turn up to take his place. Let's face
it, people just plain like to have their opinions in print, even if
only on a newsreader. That works for the trolls as well. But it's the
trolls in my experience who don't have the staying power. They'll go
away. Hatred is not a healthy emotion, and the Tilde Guy is clearly
consumed by hatred; he'll self-destruct sooner or later.

In his case, the kill file is your friend, and he's gone out of his way to be helpful
there ;-)

Guy

Guy Alcala wrote:

Would there be enough interest to do so, or are we willing to wait out the current
storm of political bumph? Let's see a show of hands as to how many people here would
want to start such a group. If there are enough, I might even be willing to moderate
it (more accurately, control the subscription list), especially if I could get a few
other volunteers to help screen subscription applications. I can think of several
regular r.a.m. posters who wouldn't make the cut, thus lessening the message volume
and aggravation level considerably, or we could put membership applications up to a
vote.

As one of the regulars that wouldn't make the cut, I have
to say I enjoy reading and sometimes responding to the
whackos. Furthermore, there are several posters here that
are so danged knowledgeable in anything they write, that
it's like a "course in general knowledge", not just military
aviation.

I'm sticking here and just ignoring the whackos, or arguing
with them when it suits me.

This NG without a Michael Petukhov? No GWB nuking Iraq
with DU? No Confederate naval blockade of the North?

Just wouldn't be the same!


SMH

"A restricted-subscription list with a
clearly stated charter and rules of behavior is a beast of a different
color."
This sounds like a VERY good idea even if I dont make the cut. I'm not an
expert just an enthusiast.

--



Curiosity killed the cat, and I'm gonna find out why!
"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
Cub Driver wrote:

Of course, if anyone knows of a good restricted subscription mailing
list for the
same subject with after-the-fact moderation that will eliminate the
chaff, by all
means let's hear about it.

Moderated lists don't often work.

snip

Quite agree, which is why I'm not suggesting one; I don't want to wait
until the
moderator has read and passed on a message. A restricted-subscription
list with a
clearly stated charter and rules of behavior is a beast of a different
color.
Subscribers can post anything they want and it shows up within a few
minutes just like
r.a.m., but if the post doesn't meet the standards and someone complains
(or the
moderator happens to notice it and thinks the violation egregious enough),
the
offender(s) is/are first warned/asked to take it elsewhere and then, if
they continue
to abuse the rules, their posting privilieges are suspended/banned. The
control is
virtually unnoticeable with a good moderator, and the ones I've been
exposed to on the
mailing lists I subscribe to (for a decade or more in some cases) have all
been
laissez-faire types who only take action when the violation is prolonged
or completely
outside the pale. Usually just a reminder of the charter and request to
take any
continued discussions elsewhere is enough to solve the problem.

There used to be and presumably still is a Vietnam war newsgroup,

which was ruined by one individual (Phill Coleman and his alter egos
of the American War Library) and the reaction of others posters to
him. It became so disheartening that someone started a moderated
Vietnam newsgroup--which died after a year or two.

With a restricted-subscription group, he would have been banned by the
moderator and
the group would have happily continued on without him.

I think Dudley got the grouch this morning. He will get over it and
come back. If not, somebody will turn up to take his place. Let's face
it, people just plain like to have their opinions in print, even if
only on a newsreader. That works for the trolls as well. But it's the
trolls in my experience who don't have the staying power. They'll go
away. Hatred is not a healthy emotion, and the Tilde Guy is clearly
consumed by hatred; he'll self-destruct sooner or later.

In his case, the kill file is your friend, and he's gone out of his way to
be helpful
there ;-)

Guy

In article ,
Ed Rasimus writes:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:37:14 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

Yama wrote:
Amazing how adding just three lines to kill file made this group much more
readable.


Exactomundo. A kill file, oddly enough, should be a living thing. I'm never
afraid to add to it. Generally speaking, a carefully chosen expression can have
almost universal effect, cleaning out pretty much all the crap and leaving the
rest intact.

I would never let off topic stuff run me off. Filter it instead...

While what you say is true, what Dudley has pointed out is true as
well. I used to look forward each day to opening the newsreader and
entering a discussion in R.A.M. Now, the group is filled with
propagandists and petty bickering. The main posters are either
anonymous twits trolling for other twits, or a half-dozen so-called
experts who simply append one-liners to unedited 150 line posts
calling each other fools.

My kill-file grows daily, but much like spammers, the posting source
keeps mutating and as soon as one mole gets whacked another pops out
of a nearby hole.

Unfortunately, after the kill-file does its work, there isn't much
"there" there.

Ed,
It's tough, but, this too will pass. (Although the posting volumes
of some of the more egregious idiots is absolutely amazing. Tempest
managed to chunk out something like 30,000 posts in less than 6
months, at normalized volume of over 100/day. That kinda implies a
bit of multiple personality, as it were) I've found that the most
effective filter, other than the Usual Gang of Idiots, was to cit my
Crosspost Tolerance such that I was rejecting anything posted to
more than 4 groups.
As for the rest, I'll read a few, and, for the most part, pull my
steel pot over my ears and huddle in the bottom of my slit trench
until the barrage is over, which I expect most folks are doing.

The current Idiotstorm has done wonders for my World View, however.
I'd been worried for the longest time about how well the
U.S. Education System had been stacking up worldwide. The influx of
immaturity from various Europeans, A few select Aussies, and a
smattering of Canadians, (and, of course, Michael P.) have convinced
me that worldwide, we're not soing such a bad job.


--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:19:00 -0400, (Peter Stickney)
wrote:


The current Idiotstorm has done wonders for my World View, however.
I'd been worried for the longest time about how well the
U.S. Education System had been stacking up worldwide. The influx of
immaturity from various Europeans, A few select Aussies, and a
smattering of Canadians, (and, of course, Michael P.) have convinced
me that worldwide, we're not soing such a bad job.


Even the darkest of clouds, does appear to have a silver lining.
Although, I'm sure a session or two in one of my political science
classes might cure your optimism.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Stephen Harding wrote:

Guy Alcala wrote:

Would there be enough interest to do so, or are we willing to wait out the current
storm of political bumph? Let's see a show of hands as to how many people here would
want to start such a group. If there are enough, I might even be willing to moderate
it (more accurately, control the subscription list), especially if I could get a few
other volunteers to help screen subscription applications. I can think of several
regular r.a.m. posters who wouldn't make the cut, thus lessening the message volume
and aggravation level considerably, or we could put membership applications up to a
vote.

As one of the regulars that wouldn't make the cut,

Why wouldn't you? Are you a troll or loon, do you continuously post off-topic crap while
providing no valauble on-topic content, are incapable of reasoned debate so instead spew
personal insults, find it impossible to maintain basic standards of civil discourse, are
you a spammer? If you can answer no to all of the above (and the moderator has no evidence
to the contrary), you'd be in. You're not trying to make such a group elitists only, just
trying to screen out the more obnoxious wasters of bandwidth.


I have
to say I enjoy reading and sometimes responding to the
whackos.

Googlegroups is definiely the place for that.

Furthermore, there are several posters here that
are so danged knowledgeable in anything they write, that
it's like a "course in general knowledge", not just military
aviation.

A reasonable amount of off-topic drift is okay, at least in the mailing lists I've
subscribed to. It's when it degenerates into childish, repetitive name-calling and/or only
a few people are involved/interested that it needs to be taken off the group. Continuing
by private email is always an option, one I've pursued a considerable amount over the
years.

I'm sticking here and just ignoring the whackos, or arguing
with them when it suits me.

Whatever floats your boat.

This NG without a Michael Petukhov? No GWB nuking Iraq
with DU? No Confederate naval blockade of the North?

Just wouldn't be the same!

You say it as if that would be a bad thing;-) The biggest advantage to me of the
deja/google groups other than its accessibility is the archive search ability. It's the
closest thing in cyberspace to a permanent record, one that the average person can actually
use to find what they're looking for without having to winnow ALL the chaff.

Guy

Boomer wrote:

"A restricted-subscription list with a
clearly stated charter and rules of behavior is a beast of a different
color."
This sounds like a VERY good idea even if I dont make the cut. I'm not an
expert just an enthusiast.

Expertise isn't required, mainly just an interest in the subject matter plus
reasonably civilized behavior. See my reply to Stephen Harding. However, so far
it appears that most people are willing to hang on with r.a.m. until the latest
round of drivel decreases.

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
Boomer wrote:

"A restricted-subscription list with a
clearly stated charter and rules of behavior is a beast of a different
color."
This sounds like a VERY good idea even if I dont make the cut. I'm not
an
expert just an enthusiast.

Expertise isn't required, mainly just an interest in the subject matter
plus
reasonably civilized behavior. See my reply to Stephen Harding. However,
so far
it appears that most people are willing to hang on with r.a.m. until the
latest
round of drivel decreases.

Henriques is no big loss.

This NG without a Michael Petukhov? No GWB nuking Iraq
with DU? No Confederate naval blockade of the North?

When you put it like that, my affection for the ng returns!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

I'd been worried for the longest time about how well the
U.S. Education System had been stacking up worldwide. The influx of
immaturity from various Europeans, A few select Aussies, and a
smattering of Canadians, (and, of course, Michael P.) have convinced
me that worldwide, we're not soing such a bad job.

Yes, I'll try to bear this in mind also.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org