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#11
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Andreas Maurer wrote:
With the standard rope length of about 4.000 ft the height advantage compared to our steel cable (on a slightly stronger winch) is impossible to judge visually. We have a 3300ft rope and we get about 50m (170ft) more with an ASK 21. Stefan |
#12
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A word of caution, have you ever tried to lift a reel
of 5mm steel wire? All that weight through one fixing/bulkhead. Might be ok with the new plastic ropes though. At 02:00 18 December 2004, Andreas Maurer wrote: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:29:41 GMT, 'Bill Daniels' wrote: You know, Andreas, I guess it's possible that they lied and then faked a video of the launch but I think it's more likely that they really did what they said since a lot of independent people are watching carefully. It could be that Lippmann gets high launches because they really know their stuff. No need to fake anything, Bill... I've seen at least a dozen of 3.000ft+ launches of them, but with 6.500 ft of rope it's pretty easy to get high if the wind is strong enough. Of course with such long ropes the light weight of the plastic starts to play a role - the longer the rope, the more advantageous gets a light rope. With the standard rope length of about 4.000 ft the height advantage compared to our steel cable (on a slightly stronger winch) is impossible to judge visually. Bye Andreas |
#13
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"Don Johnstone" wrote in message ... A word of caution, have you ever tried to lift a reel of 5mm steel wire? All that weight through one fixing/bulkhead. Might be ok with the new plastic ropes though. Indeed! 5mm wire weighs 8 - 10 pounds per hundred feet. Plastic rope weighs about 1 pound per hundred feet. Bill Daniels |
#14
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Excellent point and warning Don - pilot doesn't feel the G loads - we didn't
know much better 35 years ago and put a lot of faith in the weak link. Experts might explain (or not) why this faith is misplaced. We got a sense of the weight when collecting and loading around 4,000' of piano wire (in many pieces) onto a truck... Lou Frank "Don Johnstone" wrote in message ... A word of caution, have you ever tried to lift a reel of 5mm steel wire? All that weight through one fixing/bulkhead. Might be ok with the new plastic ropes though. At 02:00 18 December 2004, Andreas Maurer wrote: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:29:41 GMT, 'Bill Daniels' wrote: You know, Andreas, I guess it's possible that they lied and then faked a video of the launch but I think it's more likely that they really did what they said since a lot of independent people are watching carefully. It could be that Lippmann gets high launches because they really know their stuff. No need to fake anything, Bill... I've seen at least a dozen of 3.000ft+ launches of them, but with 6.500 ft of rope it's pretty easy to get high if the wind is strong enough. Of course with such long ropes the light weight of the plastic starts to play a role - the longer the rope, the more advantageous gets a light rope. With the standard rope length of about 4.000 ft the height advantage compared to our steel cable (on a slightly stronger winch) is impossible to judge visually. Bye Andreas |
#15
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Bill Daniels wrote:
"Don Johnstone" wrote in message ... A word of caution, have you ever tried to lift a reel of 5mm steel wire? All that weight through one fixing/bulkhead. Might be ok with the new plastic ropes though. Indeed! 5mm wire weighs 8 - 10 pounds per hundred feet. Plastic rope weighs about 1 pound per hundred feet. Bill Daniels Just to end the year on a high note - I got the last launch of the year at the club. 15 to 20km/h wind on the nose and 1.8km of wire resulted in a personal best of 2,300" AGL in a Bergfalke III (1964 vintage rag and tube with wooden wings) Addition of 10 year old daughter as a badly calibrated back seat audio-vario was fun too. |
#16
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If you are interested there is an igc-file from one of those high launches
available at http://www.aec-landau.de/ (click Projekte - Höhenrekord mit PE-Seil ). At my club we are also experimenting with the Hoistline, but only have a little over 900m (3000 ft). The typical release height for gliders like LS8 and Discus is 900-1200 ft using 5mm steel wire, and slightly higher (100 ft or so) for the Hoistline. Taking the huge difference in weight into account, I think that the benefit of using hoistline will increase considerably with the length of the line. Hoistline is in most respects easier to handle than steel wire, so if it was not for the price we would not consider using steel any more. -Henning "Bob Johnson" wrote in message news:cXqwd.119$ql2.74@okepread04... I'd like to find out more about this record -- they claim to be acheiving about 50% line length release altitude in almost a dead calm 1 m/s (2.5 Kt). Our 5000 ft (1500 m) Spectra line weighs only 66 lb (30 kg) and we release at about 1700 ft. (520 m), not all that much better than the steel line we used to use -- this "Hoistline" must have something going for it besides light weight! Bob Johnson Dynatec Hoistline is the new winds start rope out of plastic. It is in many areas superior to the conventional wire. Not only in the point Betriebssicherheit, that separate increase lets itself also in the start height according to rope length until 30%. On this side, you find the current News to the Dynatec istline. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . Start with a 2,000 m Hoistline! Result: would relax 950 ms! Here a video of the start! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . Current News: An interview with the 1st chairperson of the AEC Landau, Mr. Thilo Ott. The society has used the Hoistline already for almost 3 years successfully: interview pdf Hoistline long start with a 2,000 m! More than 3,000 starts with the first Dynatec Hoitsline in Landau! New! Now also F-train lines of Hoistline! German heights record with Dynatec Hoistline! The AEC Landau reached 8 incredible 900 ms in the winds start with a Ka! Further records should follow! Dynatec Hoistline collaborates perfectly with the new electro start winds: The first tests of the new Dynatec Hoistline on the also new electro winds of the firm Ulbrich- industry electronics especially positively passed. They show, functions that just these new winds especially well with the Dynatec Hoistline. It gives more information under www.startwinde.de and on the Aero in hall 1 state 109. Further successful initial use: A m Saturday (15.03.2003) around 10.40 clock we made the first start in Rostock Purkshof at the plastic rope. The conditions were not optimal, easy back wind (1m/s) and only 1250 ms rope length. As an airplane, we had occupied a Bocian doppelsitzig (full mass). Train height nevertheless 510 ms!! Further 13 starts were made and all with about the same results. We had a Sollbruchstellen tear (incorrectly stuck) and a Seilrißimitation; both without problems. The Seilhändling, is reported has like your it; extremely easily. The skeptics here in the society are upset for Saturday also. Now it arrives only on the durability. René Rietz The well known Eggerwinde successfully with the Dynatec Hoistline tested: The well known wind manufacturer Egger tested its current wind already that with new winds start rope Dynatec Hoistline. The attempts passed according to manufacturer very positively. Also the manufacturer developed first a special cap device for the Hoistline. This is also individually available. Further information under www.eggerwinde.de. D o w n l o a d s: Reconstruction instructions for the winds of the AEC-Landau. Teil 1 , Teil 2 Test report plastic start rope (ca. 2MB) in that "magazine sail fly", author Tino -- ---------------------------------------------------- This mailbox protected from junk email by MailFrontier Desktop from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com "Bill Daniels" wrote in message news:Y2qwd.770486$8_6.538044@attbi_s04... Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100'). http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm Has anyone heard of a higher launch? Bill Daniels |
#17
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OK, the new record is 2 minute launch to 1100 meters (3609 feet) AGL with an
average ROC of 17.8 knots. No wind to speak of. It sounds like pilot Elke Daniel was flying a K8. The starting rope length was 2000 meters (6562 feet). They used a new Egger winch. As soon as Aero-Club Landau gets some wind down the runway, I bet we hear of 1500 meter launches. I really wish I had a video of this. Bill Daniels "Henning K. Nielsen" wrote in message k... If you are interested there is an igc-file from one of those high launches available at http://www.aec-landau.de/ (click Projekte - Höhenrekord mit PE-Seil ). At my club we are also experimenting with the Hoistline, but only have a little over 900m (3000 ft). The typical release height for gliders like LS8 and Discus is 900-1200 ft using 5mm steel wire, and slightly higher (100 ft or so) for the Hoistline. Taking the huge difference in weight into account, I think that the benefit of using hoistline will increase considerably with the length of the line. Hoistline is in most respects easier to handle than steel wire, so if it was not for the price we would not consider using steel any more. -Henning "Bob Johnson" wrote in message news:cXqwd.119$ql2.74@okepread04... I'd like to find out more about this record -- they claim to be acheiving about 50% line length release altitude in almost a dead calm 1 m/s (2.5 Kt). Our 5000 ft (1500 m) Spectra line weighs only 66 lb (30 kg) and we release at about 1700 ft. (520 m), not all that much better than the steel line we used to use -- this "Hoistline" must have something going for it besides light weight! Bob Johnson Dynatec Hoistline is the new winds start rope out of plastic. It is in many areas superior to the conventional wire. Not only in the point Betriebssicherheit, that separate increase lets itself also in the start height according to rope length until 30%. On this side, you find the current News to the Dynatec stline. ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- . Start with a 2,000 m Hoistline! Result: would relax 950 ms! Here a video of the start! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ . Current News: An interview with the 1st chairperson of the AEC Landau, Mr. Thilo Ott. The society has used the Hoistline already for almost 3 years successfully: interview pdf Hoistline long start with a 2,000 m! More than 3,000 starts with the first Dynatec Hoitsline in Landau! New! Now also F-train lines of Hoistline! German heights record with Dynatec Hoistline! The AEC Landau reached 8 incredible 900 ms in the winds start with a Ka! Further records should follow! Dynatec Hoistline collaborates perfectly with the new electro start winds: The first tests of the new Dynatec Hoistline on the also new electro winds of the firm Ulbrich- industry electronics especially positively passed. They show, functions that just these new winds especially well with the Dynatec Hoistline. It gives more information under www.startwinde.de and on the Aero in hall 1 state 109. Further successful initial use: A m Saturday (15.03.2003) around 10.40 clock we made the first start in Rostock Purkshof at the plastic rope. The conditions were not optimal, easy back wind (1m/s) and only 1250 ms rope length. As an airplane, we had occupied a Bocian doppelsitzig (full mass). Train height nevertheless 510 ms!! Further 13 starts were made and all with about the same results. We had a Sollbruchstellen tear (incorrectly stuck) and a Seilrißimitation; both without problems. The Seilhändling, is reported has like your it; extremely easily. The skeptics here in the society are upset for Saturday also. Now it arrives only on the durability. René Rietz The well known Eggerwinde successfully with the Dynatec Hoistline tested: The well known wind manufacturer Egger tested its current wind already that with new winds start rope Dynatec Hoistline. The attempts passed according to manufacturer very positively. Also the manufacturer developed first a special cap device for the Hoistline. This is also individually available. Further information under www.eggerwinde.de. D o w n l o a d s: Reconstruction instructions for the winds of the AEC-Landau. Teil 1 , Teil 2 Test report plastic start rope (ca. 2MB) in that "magazine sail fly", author Tino -- ---------------------------------------------------- This mailbox protected from junk email by MailFrontier Desktop from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com "Bill Daniels" wrote in message news:Y2qwd.770486$8_6.538044@attbi_s04... Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100'). http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm Has anyone heard of a higher launch? Bill Daniels |
#18
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I was interested in the 3600 ft gain on the winch launch flown by Elke
in the Ka8 so I analyzed the igc file. As it turns out there was a 13 kt headwind during the launch. (This can be determined by the circling done after the launch). The maximum angle of climb was never over 40 deg (relative to the air) and his airspeed was mostly in the high 40 knots but never getting to 50 knots. The effective horizontal distance of launch through the air was about 7500 feet (taking the headwind into account) so, in still air, you would have to have a verrrrrry long rope and runway. The length over the ground was 4500 feet. By the way I used 3D-Tracer and a spreadsheet to do the analysis. If anyone wants any of the graphs for that launch, let me know. Larry Bogan 3D-Tracer -- www.stransim.com Bill Daniels wrote: OK, the new record is 2 minute launch to 1100 meters (3609 feet) AGL with an average ROC of 17.8 knots. No wind to speak of. It sounds like pilot Elke Daniel was flying a K8. The starting rope length was 2000 meters (6562 feet). They used a new Egger winch. As soon as Aero-Club Landau gets some wind down the runway, I bet we hear of 1500 meter launches. I really wish I had a video of this. Bill Daniels "Henning K. Nielsen" wrote in message k... If you are interested there is an igc-file from one of those high launches available at http://www.aec-landau.de/ (click Projekte - Höhenrekord mit PE-Seil ). |
#19
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That's interesting, Larry.
I wonder if it's possible that they are taking advantage of the light weight plastic cable by flying a lower airspeed than would be possible with steel cable. That would give them more time to climb and a higher release. Bill Daniels "Larry Bogan" wrote in message ... I was interested in the 3600 ft gain on the winch launch flown by Elke in the Ka8 so I analyzed the igc file. As it turns out there was a 13 kt headwind during the launch. (This can be determined by the circling done after the launch). The maximum angle of climb was never over 40 deg (relative to the air) and his airspeed was mostly in the high 40 knots but never getting to 50 knots. The effective horizontal distance of launch through the air was about 7500 feet (taking the headwind into account) so, in still air, you would have to have a verrrrrry long rope and runway. The length over the ground was 4500 feet. By the way I used 3D-Tracer and a spreadsheet to do the analysis. If anyone wants any of the graphs for that launch, let me know. Larry Bogan 3D-Tracer -- www.stransim.com Bill Daniels wrote: OK, the new record is 2 minute launch to 1100 meters (3609 feet) AGL with an average ROC of 17.8 knots. No wind to speak of. It sounds like pilot Elke Daniel was flying a K8. The starting rope length was 2000 meters (6562 feet). They used a new Egger winch. As soon as Aero-Club Landau gets some wind down the runway, I bet we hear of 1500 meter launches. I really wish I had a video of this. Bill Daniels "Henning K. Nielsen" wrote in message k... If you are interested there is an igc-file from one of those high launches available at http://www.aec-landau.de/ (click Projekte - Höhenrekord mit PE-Seil ). |
#20
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"Larry Bogan" wrote in message ... I was interested in the 3600 ft gain on the winch launch flown by Elke in the Ka8 so I analyzed the igc file. As it turns out there was a 13 kt headwind during the launch. (This can be determined by the circling done after the launch). The maximum angle of climb was never over 40 deg (relative to the air) and his airspeed was mostly in the high 40 knots but never getting to 50 knots. The effective horizontal distance of launch through the air was about 7500 feet (taking the headwind into account) so, in still air, you would have to have a verrrrrry long rope and runway. The length over the ground was 4500 feet. By the way I used 3D-Tracer and a spreadsheet to do the analysis. If anyone wants any of the graphs for that launch, let me know. Larry Bogan 3D-Tracer -- www.stransim.com Bill Daniels wrote: OK, the new record is 2 minute launch to 1100 meters (3609 feet) AGL with an average ROC of 17.8 knots. No wind to speak of. It sounds like pilot Elke Daniel was flying a K8. The starting rope length was 2000 meters (6562 feet). They used a new Egger winch. As soon as Aero-Club Landau gets some wind down the runway, I bet we hear of 1500 meter launches. I really wish I had a video of this. Bill Daniels "Henning K. Nielsen" wrote in message k... If you are interested there is an igc-file from one of those high launches available at http://www.aec-landau.de/ (click Projekte - Höhenrekord mit PE-Seil ). The wind could very easily have been calm at the surface and 13 knots at the 1100 meter release altitude. That would be consistent with both the ground observer's report and the logger trace. -Bob |
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