Cirrus attracting pilots with 'The Wrong Stuff'?

I don't think the Cirrus is hard to fly. It feels a little
different because of the sidestick, which takes a few
minutes to get used to, and it IS a pain to hand fly because
of the poorly setup trim controls. But I don't think it's
especially slippery if that means difficult to control.

Someone mentioned the flying article, however that
was written just before the recent crop of three incidents.

John

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:3RQhc.2723$_L6.433903@attbi_s53...
I haven't flown a Cirrus, ;( , so I can't speak to the flying
characteristics. But the flight characteristics offered by "Toly":

"but in the air the plane is very slippery and feels like it's skating on
ice, only in three dimensions"

sounds like a recipe for disaster, especially for a pilot that is rusty.
One
of the things I really like about my TR182 is that it like flying a rock.
Yes, it is boring, and I have thought lately about trading it in for a fun
airplane like a Maule or Citabria - but, in it's defense, when I haven't
flown for a while it is incredibly forgiving of imperfect piloting.

Michael

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:OiQhc.2643$aQ6.415323@attbi_s51...
There's been some discussion here about Cirrus' less-than-stellar safety
record. snip

Bull****! I have flown the SR22 and I thought it handled quite
nicely. I question the piloting skills of anyone who would say
something as inane about it as the bald tire bit listed below. It
wasn't any harder to fly than a Piper Archer II.

Dean

"Michael 182" wrote in message news:3RQhc.2723$_L6.433903@attbi_s53...
I haven't flown a Cirrus, ;( , so I can't speak to the flying
characteristics. But the flight characteristics offered by "Toly":

"but in the air the plane is very slippery and feels like it's skating on
ice, only in three dimensions"

sounds like a recipe for disaster, especially for a pilot that is rusty. One
of the things I really like about my TR182 is that it like flying a rock.
Yes, it is boring, and I have thought lately about trading it in for a fun
airplane like a Maule or Citabria - but, in it's defense, when I haven't
flown for a while it is incredibly forgiving of imperfect piloting.

Michael

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:OiQhc.2643$aQ6.415323@attbi_s51...
There's been some discussion here about Cirrus' less-than-stellar safety
record. snip

Huh? What "bald tire" bit?


"Dean Wilkinson" wrote in message
m...
Bull****! I have flown the SR22 and I thought it handled quite
nicely. I question the piloting skills of anyone who would say
something as inane about it as the bald tire bit listed below. It
wasn't any harder to fly than a Piper Archer II.

Dean

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:3RQhc.2723$_L6.433903@attbi_s53...
I haven't flown a Cirrus, ;( , so I can't speak to the flying
characteristics. But the flight characteristics offered by "Toly":

"but in the air the plane is very slippery and feels like it's skating
on
ice, only in three dimensions"

sounds like a recipe for disaster, especially for a pilot that is rusty.
One
of the things I really like about my TR182 is that it like flying a
rock.
Yes, it is boring, and I have thought lately about trading it in for a
fun
airplane like a Maule or Citabria - but, in it's defense, when I haven't
flown for a while it is incredibly forgiving of imperfect piloting.

Michael

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:OiQhc.2643$aQ6.415323@attbi_s51...
There's been some discussion here about Cirrus' less-than-stellar
safety
record. snip

Jay,

I've always heard this same thing said about the Bonanza (the "Fork-tailed
doctor killer") -- but recent accident stats for the Bo don't appear to bear
this out.


But it was during the early years of the Bo. The Cirrus is new. That's where I
would see parallels.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Flying" reports that the accident rate is plummeting and quickly
approaching 182 territory. If the kind of pilots Jay refers to are
predisposed to become Cirrus owners, the accidents certainly must have
really gotten their attention and might create a quicker self correction
than in some other airplane.
--
Roger Long

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:14:57 GMT, "Roger Long"
om wrote:

"Flying" reports that the accident rate is plummeting and quickly
approaching 182 territory. If the kind of pilots Jay refers to are
predisposed to become Cirrus owners, the accidents certainly must have
really gotten their attention and might create a quicker self correction
than in some other airplane.

Early last year the accident rate got the attention of COPA. They
instituted a safety program which included ground and flight training.
The insurance companies beside raising rates, started requiring
recurrent training from Cirrus certified instructors. The number of
accidents did decrease, but with 3 accidents in the last month any
hope of a quick statistical turn around was destroyed.

"Roger Long" om wrote in
message ...
"Flying" reports that the accident rate is plummeting and quickly
approaching 182 territory.

That's no longer true after three accidents in less than a week.

"Roger Long" om wrote in
message ...
"Flying" reports that the accident rate is plummeting and quickly
approaching 182 territory.

The Cirrus has 300% more fatal accidents than the new Cessna 182S. The
Cirrus has 8 fatals and the 182 has 7. The 182's fleet is three times
bigger than the Cirrus.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

"Roger Long" om wrote
in
message ...
"Flying" reports that the accident rate is plummeting and quickly
approaching 182 territory.

The Cirrus has 300% more fatal accidents than the new Cessna 182S. The
Cirrus has 8 fatals and the 182 has 7. The 182's fleet is three times
bigger than the Cirrus.

Transititioning from something else to a 182 is, what, 10-20 hours at most?
Wonder what an adequate transition time for a Cirrus would be?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:OiQhc.2643$aQ6.415323@attbi_s51...

What's the group-think on this one? Is Cirrus just good at attracting
crappy pilots? Or is there something else at work here?

I have met 2 Cirrus pilots in recent months and both fit the profile
you described. Relatively low time pilots with a lot of spare cash.

To me, this looks a lot like what happened when Piper introduced the
Malibu. It could be flown by low timers with just a HP and Complex
endorsement. There was a rash of accidents involving overstressing of
the airframe after the airplane got away from the pilot in turbulence
or IMC. Unlike our lowly spam cans, the Malibu had a large gap
between normal cruising speed and manuevering speed. If the plane
got away from the pilot in cruise, it could not be horsed back into
line like a Cherokee or 172.

I think this problem was eventually solved by the insurance
companies requiring a level of training that was more appropriate to
the airplane type. My bet is that something similar will happen with
the Cirrus.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)