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#11
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Any Spins Lately??
On Sep 3, 5:33 pm, "Viperdoc" wrote:
Yes, I do spins and other stuff all the time- there is nothing like going out and flying acro on a nice summer day. Never, ever gets boring. I also think it really helps get the feel of a plane. With any practice, there really should never be anything like an inadvertent spin- the plane should be telling you when you aren't doing something right prior to the stall. And once it does stall,keeping the wings level with your feet should help prevent spin entry. It takes more than keeping the wings level, and even in coordinated flight spins are possible. Spins can occur, for example, in a coordinated climbing turn stall (outside wing goes first), from a level skidding turn (inside wing goes first), from a level steep turn (inside first), and from an abrupt pullup (depends which way whatever yaw there might be). That last one is known to kill the showoff: the guy who buzzes the runway or a friend's house, then pulls up sharply to get the G forces and the steep climb. The G forces mean an increased load factor, and the stall speed goes way up. If there's any miscoordination at all and the raised stall speed meets the actual airspeed, a wing will drop viciously and the flight ends right there. Bam. I'm appalled at the number of pilots who don't seem to be aware of the aerodynamics here. Ignorance is no excuse. Physics pays no attention to excuses. Dan |
#12
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Any Spins Lately??
"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote: What airplane does FTOM use for spin training, Rocky? -- Dan T-182T at BFM |
#14
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Any Spins Lately??
In a different thread here, someone made an apt allusion to a
high-performance driving course. Anyone may wish to take such a course in the belief it will make them a more complete or more well-rounded driver, and this uncompromising attitude toward one's self is deserving of respect. It will not, however, make them less likely to have an accident - probably the inverse. The secretary who gets nervous when she has to parallel park is far less likely to have a serious accident. And if large numbers of people started subscribing to such courses, it is likely the roads would become more dangerous, because in *some* people this would favor an overconfident attitude. Compare this to single-engine recovery in light twins. All pilots have to demonstrate proficiency when they know an engine failure is likely to occur, and they have been practicing for it. In real-world incidents however, we know that a large majority fail to apply their training successfully in light twins, with marginal excess horsepower. This still leaves some who do succeed, which makes the training pertinent - combine this with the fact that avoidance is not practical (despite the best measures, engine-out incidents will still occur without warning) and the training clearly becomes indispensable. What about partial-panel in IMC? I share your impatience with marginal instructors when it comes to those who instruct IR, yet who are afraid in IMC. They should be like a fish in water in hard IMC, even partial panel. Here again, avoidance is not a satisfactory answer, as vacuum failures will occur without warning, and only partial-panel training will bail you out if you can't see out the window when it happens. Let's see though what happens to IR training requirements as the vacuum systems become obsolete, and the classic AI/DG failure becomes an anachronism. |
#15
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Any Spins Lately??
Airbus writes: [...] Compare this to single-engine recovery in light twins. [...] In real-world incidents however, we know that a large majority fail to apply their training successfully in light twins, with marginal excess horsepower. [...] How exactly do "we" know that? - FChE |
#16
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Any Spins Lately??
On Sep 4, 6:18 am, "Dan Luke" wrote:
"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote: What airplane does FTOM use for spin training, Rocky? -- Dan T-182T at BFM Dan Mostly a C-152 but on occasion, one of our C-172's.. Stop by one of these days! Rocky |
#17
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Any Spins Lately??
"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote: What airplane does FTOM use for spin training, Rocky? Mostly a C-152 but on occasion, one of our C-172's.. Stop by one of these days! Rocky Will do. I've been meaning to get some spin training for, oh, about 10 years now. -- Dan T-182T at BFM |
#18
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Any Spins Lately??
Larry Dighera wrote:
I agree with you about the need for spin training, but there are (at least) a couple of issues. 1. It's not possible to cage the gyros in most training aircraft. 2. Many aircraft (PA28s come to mind) are not approved for intentional spins. I spin my PA28 on a fairly regular basis. Not all of them have the spin restriction. The short bodied, hershey bar winged 140s and 180s were approved for spins in the Utility Category. The 140s remained spinnable throughout the production run (ended in '77) and the 180s were good until the fuselage was stretched in the '73 models. Caveat : some early models were delivered with a large fresh air fan in the tail. These models were not approved for intentional spins and are placarded as such. As for the gyros, I've heard that spinning is bad for the gyros, but it hasn't hurt mine. So far, I've been spinning the plane for 14 yrs. and have yet to replace a gyro. They will usually tumble during the manuever, but they re-erect and work normally within a few minutes. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com |
#19
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Any Spins Lately??
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:28:59 GMT, "JGalban via AviationKB.com"
u32749@uwe wrote in 77bb4cf363fa1@uwe: Larry Dighera wrote: I agree with you about the need for spin training, but there are (at least) a couple of issues. 1. It's not possible to cage the gyros in most training aircraft. 2. Many aircraft (PA28s come to mind) are not approved for intentional spins. I spin my PA28 on a fairly regular basis. Not all of them have the spin restriction. The short bodied, hershey bar winged 140s and 180s were approved for spins in the Utility Category. The 140s remained spinnable throughout the production run (ended in '77) and the 180s were good until the fuselage was stretched in the '73 models. Caveat : some early models were delivered with a large fresh air fan in the tail. These models were not approved for intentional spins and are placarded as such. Thank you for that very complete information. As for the gyros, I've heard that spinning is bad for the gyros, but it hasn't hurt mine. So far, I've been spinning the plane for 14 yrs. and have yet to replace a gyro. They will usually tumble during the manuever, but they re-erect and work normally within a few minutes. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) What have you found to be the MTBF for your gyros? |
#20
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Any Spins Lately??
"BT" wrote in message ... As a student, I requested spin training before solo. It caused a bit of a problem because they had to scare up chutes to stay legal, but they made it happen. I ain't no stunt pilot, but I have never been afraid of an intentional stall. A US CFI providing Spin Training to a student does not have or provide or wear parachutes. 91.307(d) Some might argue that a "pre-solo" student is not required to have spin training, and 91.307(d) only exempts "required training". I respectfully disagree. AFAIK, Spin training is only "required" for the CFI rating. Spin training for all other ratings is optional, so the exception of 91.307 (d) does not apply. (Yes! I know that there are other opinions around. If your FSDO goes along with some other reading of that reg, then more power to you.) ;-) Vaughn BT |
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