Lessons learned from the Oregon tragedy

Does this count all the planes that crash on/near runways and are
"found" in a matter of minutes? If so, it would skew the figure.

--Dan


john smith wrote:
According to an FAA study I found on their website several years ago,
the time is 72 hours.

Jay Honeck wrote:

We have an even more extensive kit in our airplane, knowing that the
*average* time from crash to rescue is 18 hours in the United States --
plenty long to die of exposure in the Midwest.

"Montblack" wrote in message ...
: ("john smith" wrote)
: Mr Kim's death resulting from his decision to attempt to walk out of an
: area he was unfamiliar with after becoming stranded, raises some thought
: provoking questions for aviators.
:
:
: One of his problems was thinking he was 'here,' when in fact he was
: ...there.
:
: Many of his subsequent decisions were based on that first wrong premise.
:
:
: Montblack
:
:

And his body was found, what, about 1 mile from where the car got stuck? Certainly didn't get far....

"Dan" wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a PLB, although I haven't been able to convince
myself to spend the money yet. Right now I carry a handheld that I hope
to be able to raise someone on should I go down.

I have a PLB just for this type situation.

Ron Lee

What confuses me about this incident is how did he get in that
situation to start with. Stay on travelled roads and it would not
have been a problem. Then, could he not travel back on the road to a
more travelled one?

Ron Lee

(Ron Lee) wrote:

What confuses me about this incident is how did he get in that
situation to start with. Stay on travelled roads and it would not
have been a problem. Then, could he not travel back on the road to a
more travelled one?

He missed the road he originally wanted to take to get from the interstate
to the coast, and saw an alternative on his map. To many people, roads are
simply lines on the map, and he probably didn't realize that it was not
very fast, wasn't paved, and climbed over a remote mountain pass.

He drove as far as he could along the road, and when he realized he
couldn't get over the pass because of snow, he turned around to retrace his
route back to the main road. He got lost, however, on the way back (it was
after dark, and snowing heavily) and mistakenly drove 15 miles up a logging
road that was normally closed for the winter. At 02:00 he stopped for the
night, but found he was snowed in the next morning.

Basic gear, whether driving or flying...
warm, clothes and boots, Gore-Tex, Thinsulate, warm hat and
a balaclava. Bright colors, blaze orange. A change of
socks. Signal mirror, matches and a Zippo lighter even if
you don't smoke.
Some tools, a folding shovel, a pocket knife, a small
hatchet.
Some high energy food stuff, jerky. Water, take some fresh
liter bottles, if it is below freezing, put the unfrozen
bottles inside your coat and your body will keep them
liquid.
Stay dry, stay out of the wind, stay dry.
In a car, run the engine only 10 minutes out of every hour,
use blankets to add insulation inside the car and cover the
windows at night. Buy a bright colored car.

Have flares and smoke. Tell somebody where you plan to go
and a call-in schedule so the searchers can start looking.

Cotton clothes get wet and don't dry quickly. Wool and
modern synthetics are warmer even when wet/damp.

See sportsman's catalogs such as Cabela's www.cabelas.com
and mountain sports catalogs www.rei.com and stay dry.

There is a story I read, probably 40 years ago, about a
northern Minnesota resident who lived 30 miles from town.
Monthly he would take his snowmobile and sleds to town to
buy supplies. One day his snowmobile broke down and he
tried to fix it but could not. By that time he was very
cold, temperatures were below zero F and win chills were
lower still. He tried to light a fire, but the wood he
could find was wet. He did have thousands of wooden matches
since he had just bought a big supply. Bit he couldn't get
the fire started. A day or two later the searchers found
his body and saw all the attempts to start a fire that had
failed.

He was so cold by the time he started to think about
survival shelter and a fire he couldn't think and didn't use
the 50 gallons of kerosene, or the gasoline he had on the
sled and in the snowmobile.

First thing, shelter, second start a fire while you're still
warm and can think. Improve your shelter. Stay dry.





"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
| perhaps something as simple as a hand held GPS could have
saved him. Or,
| even a hand held radio.
|
| It went well beyond that. Mr. Kim drove his family into
mountainous
| country, above the snow line, wearing tennis shoes and
light clothing.
| His chances of hiking out were almost nil.
|
| I know he wasn't expecting to take a wrong turn, and I
know he wasn't
| expecting to get stuck in the snow, and I know he wasn't
from that part
| of the country -- but the unfortunate Mr. Kim apparently
did not take
| even the most basic precautions.
|
| We keep a giant Tupperware container of survival gear in
each of our
| vehicles. In that kit is warm clothing, some food,
chemical hand/feet
| warmers jumper cables, flash lights, tools -- the basic
survival stuff.
| We have an even more extensive kit in our airplane,
knowing that the
| *average* time from crash to rescue is 18 hours in the
United States --
| plenty long to die of exposure in the Midwest.
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
perhaps something as simple as a hand held GPS could have saved him. Or,
even a hand held radio.

It went well beyond that. Mr. Kim drove his family into mountainous
country, above the snow line, wearing tennis shoes and light clothing.
His chances of hiking out were almost nil.

I know he wasn't expecting to take a wrong turn, and I know he wasn't
expecting to get stuck in the snow, and I know he wasn't from that part
of the country -- but the unfortunate Mr. Kim apparently did not take
even the most basic precautions.

We keep a giant Tupperware container of survival gear in each of our
vehicles. In that kit is warm clothing, some food, chemical hand/feet
warmers jumper cables, flash lights, tools -- the basic survival stuff.
We have an even more extensive kit in our airplane, knowing that the
*average* time from crash to rescue is 18 hours in the United States --
plenty long to die of exposure in the Midwest.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



Jay, I live in the Pacific Northwest I never go on a mountain drive with
out crap to get myself unstuck and a full size spare tire and I carry and
have winter clothes and usually some sort of hunting equipment & a radio
with plenty of batteries. I know the area and unless you have some sort of
a transmitter even a CB you would be lucky to be found if ever during the
winter on some of the logging roads can go on for miles and miles and miles.

"Blueskies" wrote in message
. net...
And his body was found, what, about 1 mile from where the car got stuck?
Certainly didn't get far....

One miles straight-line. He had traveled approximately 10 miles total, and
the straight-line route back to the car from where he was not walkable.
You'd need climbing equipment to navigate it, even on a nice summer day.

"NW_Pilot" wrote

Jay, I live in the Pacific Northwest I never go on a mountain drive with out
crap to get myself unstuck and a full size spare tire and I carry and have
winter clothes and usually some sort of hunting equipment & a radio with
plenty of batteries. I know the area and unless you have some sort of a
transmitter even a CB you would be lucky to be found if ever during the winter
on some of the logging roads can go on for miles and miles and miles.

Carrying a real set of chains should be considered required equipment for winter
driving, as well as a come-a-long and a good length or stout rope, or chain. I
consider 25 feet an absolute minimum.

Food bars, water and a candle and blankets also are good items, as well as boots
and gloves.
--
Jim in NC

Richard Riley wrote:

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 15:42:38 GMT, (Ron Lee)
wrote:

"Dan" wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a PLB, although I haven't been able to convince
myself to spend the money yet. Right now I carry a handheld that I hope
to be able to raise someone on should I go down.

I have a PLB just for this type situation.


406 Mhz? Which brand?

McMurdo Fastfind with GPS

Ron Lee