alexis park inn and aviation videos

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
he (Jay) always pointed out that this content is not related to his
business.

I think you're having trouble with the words "related", "directly linked",
and "foregone conclusion".

you mean like questions regarding itunes or folder-views?

I'm not the one harping on cross-talk.

Pete

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:wTUUf.880705$xm3.507504@attbi_s21...
I know you're not saying this, but I'm curious: How can *I* be engaged in
spam? It is Martin who brought up the topic.

My impression of his post is that somehow, email is going around advertising
your hotel by using the aviation video page as a lure.

I have no evidence that that is actually happening; I'm simply interpreting
Martin's post. Of course, he provided no real evidence about the origin of
the email, so any such claim on his part (intended or not) would be empty.

Pete

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
Well, Marty's ours and we're keeping him. "How you doing Marty?" :-)

Another "shout out" goes to Marco Leon. I never get to see your posts
anymore unless someone quotes you, or I whip over into Google Groups and
find you there. It's that Supernews? Superfeed? problem. I'm missing
someone else, too - can't remember who at the moment.

Supernews. They are blocking Marco's news service.

I have been pursuing this through my own ISP, and have gotten basically the
same brick wall Peter got, just from the other side. My ISP has attempted
to get a comment from Supernews about the issue, and Supernews keeps
stonewalling them. The abuse department doesn't return email or phone
calls, and the technical department hides behind "we can't comment due to
privacy concerns" crap.

Personally, I think it's a load of crap, and I'm disgusted with my own ISP
for putting up with the load of crap rather than switching news providers.
But I also suspect that there's some validity to whatever reason it is that
Newsfeeds is being blocked, based on some of what I've read about them on
the news service review web sites.

I'm disappointed that there are some people whose posts I can't see, but not
so much that I'm motivated to jostle my existing Internet service. I don't
see hordes of other people dropping Supernews, so I guess for now I'll
console myself with "no one else is doing it".

Pete

Executive summary: Jay, I think you're doing good stuff with the
aviation videos (and commentary on them), and I don't think you're
relentlessly promoting your business, but I'm a little surprised you
don't see how some things could be taken that way by some people.

"Jay Honeck" writes:

so it now is clear that the aviation content (and possible copyright
issues) are directly linked to Jay's *business*.

That's an interesting presumption. How is this video page linked to my
business, other than the fact that it's a page (out of a hundred other
pages) on our hotel's website? (And this is merely for convenience' sake,
as I don't have another place to put them.)

I believe you. And it makes perfectly good sense. And you think of
the hotel as being "yours" rather than you as belonging to the hotel
business, I imagine.

Still, finding the videos on the hotel website leads to linking them.

There seems to be a widespread impression that "businesses" are
souless corporate monsters. The fact that it's true too often may
contribute to the general impression.

We neither charge for nor sell any of the videos, we give proper
accreditation (when known), and I will remove any video upon request. We
also provide links to NTSB reports, eye-witness reports, and any other
pertinent details regarding the video.

No one has ever requested that any video be removed. In fact, in every case
when people have seen their videos on the site, they have enthusiastically
sent me MORE of their videos. They know that this is a page that is there
for the good of all pilots, and they understand -- as apparently you
don't -- the sacrifice it has taken to put that page together.

This is one of those issues where copyright law conflicts with the
public good. You're taking the slightly risky approach of making
useful/interesting stuff available that often wouldn't otherwise be
available, without always locating the copyright owners and getting
written permission first. Since very often it's hard or impossible to
find the copyright holders of stuff wandering the net, you're probably
making available some useful/interesting stuff that wouldn't be
available if you took the legally conservative approach. It's only
*slightly* risky because the vast majority of the time anybody with
rights who objected would try asking politely first, before resorting
to big (expensive) sticks like legal action. And your experience so
far has been that nobody with rights to material on your site has made
known that they were unhappy, and quite a few have shown that they
were pleased, so that's good.

In fact, if you factor in my time, I have spent many thousands of
dollars on that stupid page, simply because it's interesting to me,
and Jav has kindly donated the bandwidth so that all pilots and
aviation enthusiasts may enjoy and (hopefully) learn something. NO
ONE is making money on the deal, I assure you.

Still, people inclined to see the worst in anything relating to a
business can point to the fact that that page is content on the hotel
website, and will presumable draw traffic to the site and hence
assists in promoting your business.

Oh, and the company selling Jav the bandwidth is probably making money
on the deal :-).


Assuming Jay's engaging in spam and copyright violation (and that's far
from a foregone conclusion), how is that an on-topic post here?

I know you're not saying this, but I'm curious: How can *I* be engaged in
spam? It is Martin who brought up the topic.

Martin was commenting on email he received (see message
). The bits he quoted had the appearance
and style of spam. What he didn't show was where the email came from.
It's *also* of the format of email I'd send to a list of friends
telling them about something neat I'd found; in fact I learned this
morning that email I sent yesterday had landed in a friend's spam
folder, presumably because it had very much the format of spam. In
fact I was telling her that some 170 Ansel Adams pictures, outtakes
from a 1950s Fortuna magazine article, could be found on the Los
Angeles public library web site. But (see my remark earlier about
assuming the worst about business) he may well have assumed that the
original email started out with something you sent out. (Cue stupid
quote about "assume").
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
Well, Marty's ours and we're keeping him. "How you doing Marty?" :-)

Another "shout out" goes to Marco Leon. I never get to see your posts
anymore unless someone quotes you, or I whip over into Google Groups
and find you there. It's that Supernews? Superfeed? problem. I'm
missing someone else, too - can't remember who at the moment.

Supernews. They are blocking Marco's news service.

I have been pursuing this through my own ISP, and have gotten basically
the same brick wall Peter got, just from the other side. My ISP has
attempted to get a comment from Supernews about the issue, and Supernews
keeps stonewalling them. The abuse department doesn't return email or
phone calls, and the technical department hides behind "we can't comment
due to privacy concerns" crap.

Personally, I think it's a load of crap, and I'm disgusted with my own
ISP for putting up with the load of crap rather than switching news
providers. But I also suspect that there's some validity to whatever
reason it is that Newsfeeds is being blocked, based on some of what I've
read about them on the news service review web sites.

I'm disappointed that there are some people whose posts I can't see, but
not so much that I'm motivated to jostle my existing Internet service.
I don't see hordes of other people dropping Supernews, so I guess for
now I'll console myself with "no one else is doing it".

Pete

I was the one that originally brought this issue up in this group.
Apologies for it being so off topic, but it obviously affects more
than just me.

I've continued to press the issue in Supernews' support groups when
I can, like recently when someone else ran into the problem. Of course,
Supernews stays quiet, and other readers of the support group continue
to take pot shots at me. I was even called "altruistic", as if that was
a bad thing!

I had found some information about Newsfeeds that really paints them
in a bad light. Apparently they were a major source of spam at one
time. I do not know if this is still the case.

However, Supernews' attitude, that is, ignoring any questions on the
topic, is not justified. They have gladly helped me on other issues,
even through "improper" channels, and even discussed with me other
filters. The only reply I ever got about Newsfeeds was that it was not
their policy to discuss their filters. See the hypocrisy?

Anway, apologies again for this being so off topic. But I just feel
it's not good for those who actually pay for their NSP to have to put
up with crap like that.

Yes, I'm being altruistic.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Marco Leon mmleonyahoo.com wrote:

How do you like Giganews? I'd like to switch to one that doesn't keep adding
that annoying tag line at the bottom.

Marco, I was a Newsfeeds.com customer for six-plus years and I have a list
a mile long of the problems I had with them.

So far, I have been *very* happy with Giganews. One hundred percent
reliability since I have been with them (Newsfeeds would have had at least
one problem in the last three months), speed is excellent, and their
retention is the best in the business.

The only issue is that the monthly cost is almost double what NF was
charging, depending on the tier you choose. But, to me, it is worth it.

--
Peter

My impression of his post is that somehow, email is going around advertising
your hotel by using the aviation video page as a lure.

Dang -- THAT is a pretty loose definition of "Spam".

That's like saying that AvWeb is a spammer because a friend recommends
it to me. After all, AvWeb has advertisers, and stands to gain from my
dropping by their site.

By the way, here's one of the funniest videos anyone has sent us yet,
just received a few hours ago:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q39F22ADC

Just when you think the Brits are crazy
(see http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2AF12ADC ),
the French go and prove that they can be just as nutty -- and 18 years
earlier than the Brits!

:-)

(I'm not sure why I find the launching of perfectly good automobiles
off an aircraft carrier funny, but I do, God help me...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article . com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

By the way, here's one of the funniest videos anyone has sent us yet,
just received a few hours ago:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q39F22ADC

I just emailed that to The Little French Girl.
She will appreciate it.

"Skywise" wrote in message
...
[...]
Anway, apologies again for this being so off topic. But I just feel
it's not good for those who actually pay for their NSP to have to put
up with crap like that.

Well, if I were paying Supernews directly, you can bet I'd switch in a
heartbeat. Their service is included in a broader contract for my broadband
service, which I'm otherwise satisfied with. I can only pressure them so
much, until I have to put up or shut up.

I have a suspicion that if Supernews *did* comment on their block of
Newsfeeds, I'd find myself thinking it was reasonable. My main complaint is
not the block, so much as it is their unwillingness to talk about it. So
far, not enough to make me drop my whole Internet package.

Yes, I'm being altruistic.

Damn you!



Pete

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
My impression of his post is that somehow, email is going around
advertising
your hotel by using the aviation video page as a lure.

Dang -- THAT is a pretty loose definition of "Spam".

That's like saying that AvWeb is a spammer because a friend recommends
it to me. After all, AvWeb has advertisers, and stands to gain from my
dropping by their site.

Depends on the email. The implication I saw in Martin's post (not like he's
bothered to be clear about what his point really is or anything) is that the
email he received was sent by you for the sole purpose of advertising.

That's a little different from a word-of-mouth recommendation for AvWeb.

Of course, since he didn't bother to provide any details about the email
he's talking about, there's no real evidence it was sent for the sole
purpose of advertising. In fact, the lack of details suggests he's just
grinding his axe again, and has no valid complaint.

It may well be true that you are in technical violation of copyright law in
some of the cases (I suspect at least some the author made a statement
somewhere along the line granted distribution rights, so even if you are
violating copyright law, I doubt it's 100% of the videos ). However, as
you've pointed out you would take down any video someone complained about.
None of the videos represent a potential loss of income (in contrast to the
music file sharing Martin's comparing you with), and I doubt anyone would be
able to come up with a valid claim of economic damages.

On top of that, very few of the videos on your web site are unavailable
broadly on the Internet. What makes your page unique is that the videos are
collected in one place, and include commentary original to you and your site
(which itself would be protected under copyright law if some *other* web
site "borrowed" for their own use ). The mere presence of the videos is
not unusual, and simply mirrors their similar presence numerous other places
on the Internet (which doesn't necessarily make it legal, but it does
suggest it's not a big deal).

It seems to me that, a long time ago, Martin did occasionally post about
something related to flying. You and I and others are all guilty of
off-topic diversions, but we always come back to flying. Martin's been out
in left field for a while now. I don't know why he's holding such a grudge
against your video page. But as long as he keeps at it, I'll be happy to
reply pointing out how silly he's being.

Pete