Need a Usenet computer guru opinion please

Dudley Henriques wrote:
...
I am in the process of dealing with an unknown person or persons using
my name to post here on this forum. It's no big deal really as I'm
sure any of you who matter recognize the difference between my posts
and the forgeries....

Dudley Henriques

It might be useful to find out if the troll in question
is left or right-handed.

Brian W

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:58:10 -0600, brian whatcott wrote:

Dudley Henriques wrote:
...
I am in the process of dealing with an unknown person or persons using
my name to post here on this forum. It's no big deal really as I'm
sure any of you who matter recognize the difference between my posts
and the forgeries....

Dudley Henriques

It might be useful to find out if the troll in question
is left or right-handed.

Brian W

Huh?
--
Bear Bottoms-Freeware Researcher Extraordinaire
Freeware website: http://bearware.info

Dudley Henriques wrote:
I understand someone could open an account on one of the free servers
using my name and have taken the steps necessary along those lines,
but how can their posts appear on Google Groups allowing access
through links to my profile.

Here's what I believe is happening:

Google Groups uses only the content of the "From:" header to automatically
associate posts to user profiles. So when someone places your name and e-
mail address in the header of their posts, then no matter what Usenet
service provider they posted from (and irrespective of all the other post's
headers) the Google Groups software will associate that post with your
Google Groups account.

So the Google Groups web site software displays your user profile when
someone (like you or I) clicks on the "View profile" of the forged post.
Fortunately that does nothing to compromise your Google account.

Is there any way at all this can be stopped by notifying Google
Groups? Is this even a Google Groups problem?

It's a problem with the user interface design of Google Groups that isn't
likely to be fixed since they probably don't consider it broken. I suspect
they wrote their software the way they did so that even if a poster changes
Usenet service providers, then so long as that user continues to post under
the same name and/or e-mail address, then their archives will associate all
posts to the same user profile. Sometimes that reasonable, sometimes not
(as in forgeries.)

In one sense, the Google Groups programming assumption reinforces the case
that such forgeries have the potential to be libelous and if persistent and
serious enough, might rate legal pursuit. Depends on whether the perp makes
the cost/benefit ratio low enough to pursue for you or anyone else so
targeted.

I've seen enough of the mismanagement (or deliberately criminal
management?) of x-privat.org and the owner's slow and non-responses to
complaints (and failures to blacklist repeated perps and failure to put in
place better registration procedures) that I think it would be reasonable
to target that provider. I think that from a legal strategy point of view,
it might be worthwhile to consider pointing out to the owner of the x-
privat.org machines that such libelous posts are originating on _their_
machines and they are responsible for said libel until they can prove
otherwise. In other words, if they aren't keeping records of who is posting
through their machine they have to be considered the authors of those
posts.

On Nov 10, 1:30*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
I understand someone could open an account on one of the free servers
using my name and have taken the steps necessary along those lines,
but how can their posts appear on Google Groups allowing access
through links to my profile.

Here's what I believe is happening:

Google Groups uses only the content of the "From:" header to automatically
associate posts to user profiles. So when someone places your name and e-
mail address in the header of their posts, then no matter what Usenet
service provider they posted from (and irrespective of all the other post's
headers) the Google Groups software will associate that post with your
Google Groups account.

So the Google Groups web site software displays your user profile when
someone (like you or I) clicks on the "View profile" of the forged post.
Fortunately that does nothing to compromise your Google account.

Is there any way at all this can be stopped by notifying Google
Groups? Is this even a Google Groups problem?

It's a problem with the user interface design of Google Groups that isn't
likely to be fixed since they probably don't consider it broken. I suspect
they wrote their software the way they did so that even if a poster changes
Usenet service providers, then so long as that user continues to post under
the same name and/or e-mail address, then their archives will associate all
posts to the same user profile. Sometimes that reasonable, sometimes not
(as in forgeries.)

In one sense, the Google Groups programming assumption reinforces the case
that such forgeries have the potential to be libelous and if persistent and
serious enough, might rate legal pursuit. Depends on whether the perp makes
the cost/benefit ratio low enough to pursue for you or anyone else so
targeted.

I've seen enough of the mismanagement (or deliberately criminal
management?) of x-privat.org and the owner's slow and non-responses to
complaints (and failures to blacklist repeated perps and failure to put in
place better registration procedures) that I think it would be reasonable
to target that provider. I think that from a legal strategy point of view,
it might be worthwhile to consider pointing out to the owner of the x-
privat.org machines that such libelous posts are originating on _their_
machines and they are responsible for said libel until they can prove
otherwise. In other words, if they aren't keeping records of who is posting
through their machine they have to be considered the authors of those
posts.

Thanks Jim. I'm considering at this point just how far I want to go
with this. I have considerable resources but so far no harm has been
done other than aggravation. I have some fairly heavy police and legal
resources available overseas in both the UK and Switzerland that have
been made aware of what's happening. I've given them what data I
have.
As I say, nothing so far but harmless troll behavior but I'm keeping a
close eye on it to see if it expands.
Dudley

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Thanks Jim. I'm considering at this point just how far I want to go
with this. I have considerable resources but so far no harm has been
done other than aggravation. I have some fairly heavy police and legal
resources available overseas in both the UK and Switzerland that have
been made aware of what's happening. I've given them what data I
have.

I see the idiot has shifted to forging posts via a Chinese service, but
probably doesn't realize (or care) that he's already left trails to him
elsewhere. In fact the more service providers he uses, the easier it gets
to nail him.

As I say, nothing so far but harmless troll behavior but I'm keeping a
close eye on it to see if it expands.

Trolling literally doesn't pay so I don't understand why anyone bothers.
And why play with libel only for spite? Fundamentally irrational.

On Nov 10, 2:31*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
Thanks Jim. I'm considering at this point just how far I want to go
with this. I have considerable resources but so far no harm has been
done other than aggravation. I have some fairly heavy police and legal
resources available overseas in both the UK and Switzerland that have
been made aware of what's happening. I've given them what data I
have.

I see the idiot has shifted to forging posts via a Chinese service, but
probably doesn't realize (or care) that he's already left trails to him
elsewhere. In fact the more service providers he uses, the easier it gets
to nail him.

As I say, nothing so far but harmless troll behavior but I'm keeping a
close eye on it to see if it expands.

Trolling literally doesn't pay so I don't understand why anyone bothers.
And why play with libel only for spite? Fundamentally irrational.

What I'll never understand is what causes an individual to form such
an utter hatred for another based on what happens on Usenet. The
forgeries and replies are so filled with vitriol and personal attack
one has to wonder about the emotional stability involved. I would LOVE
to have the opportunity to go head to head with this character and
have him/her state in public and for his peers to see, EXACTLY what it
is that has caused these cogent personal attacks. Not the expected,
"because you're an idiot" or "because you think your crap stinks
better than everybody else's" type of reply either. THAT kind of reply
says absolutely nothing but that the person posting such replies
doesn't like someone else.
No, I would want a REASON...............and EXACT REASON.
What's interesting about that is that the troll really doesn't have a
reason that would be reasonable to a general audience.
I probably yanked his chain somewhere back in the stone age and he
harbors some deep resentment.
Of course there IS always the chance that this character gets his
kicks out of trying to get someone to go off on him, hence a classic
troll rather than one of the above mentioned.
Anyway, it's a shame that someone with the smarts to go to that much
trouble to aggravate someone couldn't channel those efforts into
useful dialog with people.
As it happens, this same troll has taken on other people here as well,
so I don't really feel "special" :-))
Dudley Henriques

In article 41618695-f7c4-4394-85fd-
, says...
On Nov 10, 2:31*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
Thanks Jim. I'm considering at this point just how far I want to go
with this. I have considerable resources but so far no harm has been
done other than aggravation. I have some fairly heavy police and legal
resources available overseas in both the UK and Switzerland that have
been made aware of what's happening. I've given them what data I
have.

I see the idiot has shifted to forging posts via a Chinese service, but
probably doesn't realize (or care) that he's already left trails to him
elsewhere. In fact the more service providers he uses, the easier it gets
to nail him.

As I say, nothing so far but harmless troll behavior but I'm keeping a
close eye on it to see if it expands.

Trolling literally doesn't pay so I don't understand why anyone bothers..
And why play with libel only for spite? Fundamentally irrational.

What I'll never understand is what causes an individual to form such
an utter hatred for another based on what happens on Usenet. The
forgeries and replies are so filled with vitriol and personal attack
one has to wonder about the emotional stability involved. I would LOVE
to have the opportunity to go head to head with this character and
have him/her state in public and for his peers to see, EXACTLY what it
is that has caused these cogent personal attacks. Not the expected,
"because you're an idiot" or "because you think your crap stinks
better than everybody else's" type of reply either. THAT kind of reply
says absolutely nothing but that the person posting such replies
doesn't like someone else.
No, I would want a REASON...............and EXACT REASON.
What's interesting about that is that the troll really doesn't have a
reason that would be reasonable to a general audience.
I probably yanked his chain somewhere back in the stone age and he
harbors some deep resentment.
Of course there IS always the chance that this character gets his
kicks out of trying to get someone to go off on him, hence a classic
troll rather than one of the above mentioned.
Anyway, it's a shame that someone with the smarts to go to that much
trouble to aggravate someone couldn't channel those efforts into
useful dialog with people.
As it happens, this same troll has taken on other people here as well,
so I don't really feel "special" :-))
Dudley Henriques

Well what I don't get - is why you simply don't just ignore him/her?

This is what these sort of folk *do* - and this person is suceeding in
baiting you to the extent that you have made this post (amoung others).

In short, surely if you just ignore them, bozo bin them - they'll
realise you are no fun to 'play' with - and go away.

Well that's my theory, and I'm stickin' with it!

--
Duncan.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
On Nov 10, 2:31 pm, Jim Logajan wrote:

Trolling literally doesn't pay so I don't understand why anyone bothers.
And why play with libel only for spite? Fundamentally irrational.

What I'll never understand is what causes an individual to form such
an utter hatred for another based on what happens on Usenet.

My guess is that you embarrassed him to HIMSELF. Perhaps the realization of
an astonishing short-coming has resulted in his striking out at you,
manifested in his psychotic attacks.

IOW, despite his bombast, inside he's utterly devastated.

Or maybe he's just an common cowardly thug who has a computer and some tech
skills rather than gang colors.

Dudley Henriques wrote:
What's interesting about that is that the troll really doesn't have a
reason that would be reasonable to a general audience.

Some people strap on bombs, walk into crowds of innocent people, and blow
themselves and others into eternal oblivion. Others walk into crowds and
shoot everyone in sight until they themselves are brought down. None of
them have reasons for their actions that general audiences would find
reasonable.

Trolls and suicide bombers are worlds apart in many important ways, but I
think they at least share in common an over-arching ego-centrism.

I probably yanked his chain somewhere back in the stone age and he
harbors some deep resentment.

I'd wager that is the case.

Dudley Henriques wrote:
....
I have some fairly heavy police and legal
resources available overseas in both the UK and Switzerland that have
been made aware of what's happening.

Obviously you don't understand that bragging like this is exactly what
makes you a rewarding target. You take yourself way too seriously.

BTW, replying to huge posts without even bothering to sensibly trim the
quotes is considered spam by many people, too.