Gelcoat repair

On Nov 18, 4:12*pm, Craig wrote:
On Nov 18, 3:35*pm, glider wrote:

*The process is very messy and can be hazardous to your health.
And it takes many, many hours of careful preperation.
*Labor intensive.
*As JJ said, mass balance of controls *is very important.
* 400-1000 hours is possible...no joke.
*Polyurethane may be best way to go.
*GA

Jim Phoenix nicely documented the refinish on his Nimbus 3.http://www.jimphoenix.com/?page_id=42

Heck, anything less than 18m will seem like a cakewalk. *Just don't
plan on having a social life this winter...

Best regards,
Craig Funston

Jim Phoenix reads RAS from time to time, so I'll try not to tell any
lies. I corresponded with him quite some time ago, about the time I
was re-finishing a small portion of my fuselage with gelcoat.
Regarding the gelcoat vs poly, I'm pretty sure he said if he had it
to do over again, he wouldn't gelcoat, he'd shoot polyurethane.

"Uncle Fuzzy" wrote

Jim Phoenix reads RAS from time to time, so I'll try not to tell any
lies. I corresponded with him quite some time ago, about the time I
was re-finishing a small portion of my fuselage with gelcoat.
Regarding the gelcoat vs poly, I'm pretty sure he said if he had it
to do over again, he wouldn't gelcoat, he'd shoot polyurethane.

Is that polly paint, or something else you are talking about? What polly
product builds as thick as jell coat?

I'm still trying to learn about the glass and more exotic composites. I'm a
wood or metal kinda' guy!
--
Jim in NC

On Nov 18, 9:17*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:
On Nov 18, 4:12*pm, Craig wrote:





On Nov 18, 3:35*pm, glider wrote:

*The process is very messy and can be hazardous to your health.
And it takes many, many hours of careful preperation.
*Labor intensive.
*As JJ said, mass balance of controls *is very important.
* 400-1000 hours is possible...no joke.
*Polyurethane may be best way to go.
*GA

Jim Phoenix nicely documented the refinish on his Nimbus 3.http://www.jimphoenix.com/?page_id=42

Heck, anything less than 18m will seem like a cakewalk. *Just don't
plan on having a social life this winter...

Best regards,
Craig Funston

Jim Phoenix reads RAS from time to time, so I'll try not to tell any
lies. *I corresponded with him quite some time ago, about the time I
was re-finishing a small portion of my fuselage with gelcoat.
Regarding the gelcoat vs poly, *I'm pretty sure he said if he had it
to do over again, he wouldn't gelcoat, he'd shoot polyurethane.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've refinished in both Acrylic Urethane and polyester topcoat
(commonly called "gelcoat'). From my experience, each has it's place.
Gelcoat goes on thick and is tolerant of a lot of sins. Amatuer
spraying skills don't make a disaster. It does get hard and takes
quite a bit of work to sand out and polish. Life expectancy, if done
right and stored properly, should be plenty long.
It is comparatively inexpensive- roughly $500 for a 15 meter glider
for material and catalyst.
AU- I use PPG Concept as suggested by JJ and others, requires
excellent preparation and as perfect a surface as you can get because
it does not have much thickness. Gloss is great and is sands easier
than gelcoat.
BUT. Time and effort, from my experience with both is that the extra
time in prep before spraying AU exceeds the difference to sand out and
polish gelcoat.
AU is outstanding in UV protection and far exceeds gelcoat with
respect to weathering.
AU costs about 2 1/2 times as much as gelcoat.
AU must be sprayed in a safer environment and MUST be done using full
positive pressure protection gear as it contains what is essentially a
nerve toxin(aliphatic isocyanate).
Gelcoat is easier for fixing up that occasional ding.
So- long winded- which to use and why.
We did our ASK-21's in AU because of amount of time in weather and
harder life.
We do others in gelcoat for easier touchup, lower cost , and less
toxic exposure.
If you are going to do one glider one time as a beginner, I would
suggest polyester finish.
JJ likes AU but remember he has a huge amount of experience that a new
person won't have. Choice may well also be affected by availability of
experienced help.
FWIW
UH

On Nov 19, 5:58*am, wrote:
On Nov 18, 9:17*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:





On Nov 18, 4:12*pm, Craig wrote:

On Nov 18, 3:35*pm, glider wrote:

*The process is very messy and can be hazardous to your health.
And it takes many, many hours of careful preperation.
*Labor intensive.
*As JJ said, mass balance of controls *is very important.
* 400-1000 hours is possible...no joke.
*Polyurethane may be best way to go.
*GA

Jim Phoenix nicely documented the refinish on his Nimbus 3.http://www..jimphoenix.com/?page_id=42

Heck, anything less than 18m will seem like a cakewalk. *Just don't
plan on having a social life this winter...

Best regards,
Craig Funston

Jim Phoenix reads RAS from time to time, so I'll try not to tell any
lies. *I corresponded with him quite some time ago, about the time I
was re-finishing a small portion of my fuselage with gelcoat.
Regarding the gelcoat vs poly, *I'm pretty sure he said if he had it
to do over again, he wouldn't gelcoat, he'd shoot polyurethane.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've refinished in both Acrylic Urethane and polyester topcoat
(commonly called "gelcoat'). From my experience, each has it's place.
Gelcoat goes on thick and is tolerant of a lot of sins. Amatuer
spraying skills don't make a disaster. It does get hard and takes
quite a bit of work to sand out and polish. Life expectancy, if done
right and stored properly, should be plenty long.
It is comparatively inexpensive- roughly $500 for a 15 meter glider
for material and catalyst.
AU- I use PPG Concept as suggested by JJ and others, requires
excellent preparation and as perfect a surface as you can get because
it does not have much thickness. Gloss is great and is sands easier
than gelcoat.
BUT. Time and effort, from my experience with both is that the extra
time in prep before spraying AU exceeds the difference to sand out and
polish gelcoat.
AU is outstanding in UV protection and far exceeds gelcoat with
respect to weathering.
AU costs about 2 1/2 times as much as gelcoat.
AU must be sprayed in a safer environment and MUST be done using full
positive pressure protection gear as it contains what is essentially a
nerve toxin(aliphatic isocyanate).
Gelcoat is easier for fixing up that occasional ding.
So- long winded- which to use and why.
We did our ASK-21's in AU because of amount of time in weather and
harder life.
We do others in gelcoat for easier touchup, lower cost , and less
toxic exposure.
If you are going to do one glider one time as a beginner, I would
suggest polyester finish.
JJ likes AU but remember he has a huge amount of experience that a new
person won't have. Choice may well also be affected by availability of
experienced help.
FWIW
UH

UH,

I am guessing the "gelcoat" is Prestec, made by Simtec Coatings? I
sprayed my Apis with it. I do like using it also. The guys at Simtec
will tell you they call it a "polyester topcoat".

The one nagging problem I can't seem to get away from is that here in
the Pacific NW, my Apis grows nasty blisters in the paint every year
around this time. I have a well insulated trailer, with a vent. But, I
am not able to run power to the trailer for a heat source and a small
fan.

Cheers,
Brad

Heck, anything less than 18m will seem like a cakewalk. *Just don't
plan on having a social life this winter...

I am restoring an LS-1 right now. And I can truely attest to the
amount of work it's taking. I'm taking my time, going very slow and
using the advice from 6 mentors who have repainted a glider before.
One of which is giving me weekly advice, sometimes daily.

My friend Ralph Luebke who has built many gliders before gave me a
peice of a wing that came from a grob twin astir. I would HIGHLY
recommend getting a small peice from a wrecked glider and practing on
that first. This was a great idea that has taught me a bunch. I took
a 3 foot section about mid wing that was sawed off on both sides, then
aggresively took a sander to it to see just how it would look to go
through the gelcoat and into the fiberglass. You can destroy the
bottom side perhaps to learn by pushing the limits of a sander, or you
could take another section and restore it with "no fear" of hurting a
wing. It was great to purposely make a mistake on a wrecked gliders
wing verses accidently making mistake on an airworthy glider like my
LS-1.

If your retired, part time or on an airline pilot schedule like me (20
days off/month)...the amount of work can easily be scheduled as to
avoid interferring with your social life. I have really had alot of
fun in the garage listening to talk radio, listening to my ipod and
spending time on my favorite hobby during a rainy day. So far, it's
alot of work, but enjoyable to see this old glider come back to life!

Anybody got a wrecked fiberglass glider wing (1 to 3 foot section)
they could give to jeplane?